Forums >Look What I Can Do!>Running with the sub-3s: unfinished business
Interval Junkie --Nobby
tl;dr: Weak ankle, knee niggle and the cold putting a crimp in my training. Junk mostly fine. Gained 5lbs over the holiday, and dropped one already. 172lbs currently. Very slow and doubt is creeping in about Marathon goals. But Wrigs found me good people to run with on Mondays.
TRM-11: I've returned form Croatia in the fog of a set-back. Croatia itself was great. Running at 60F, up Marjan, was such a pleasure. The constant marble sidewalks leading to Marjan, well, not so much. Good group of people, Marjan Maraton Klub. Probably the most positive and optimistic people in all of Split; everyone else there is full of cigarettes and cynicism.
For whatever reason, it's acceptable fashion to wear Bluffs on their heads like a hat. I was given one that has the club name on it. Mladen, the group leader is wearing a lime green one in the center. The "Flying Postman" is wearing the blue cap. A few more women joined us later in the run.
The day after Christmas I ran a 10K race with them. I wasn't sure how I'd fare. Wasn't sure if there were any athletes in this town. Well, it turns out Split is known as the athlete factory of Croatia. I ran with fear in my heart that I wouldn't be able to make the distance at the pace I was running, so I had a terrible race. 40mins and change. The first woman had 20 seconds on me at the last turn (1.5mil to go). I gained 19sec on her before the finish. An 195lbs 42yo was just in front of her and took 3rd for our AG.
Mostly the 10k let me know that I'm slow. Really slow. And a bit gun-shy. The solution might be to sign up for more races before the big event. Considering the current -5F outside, I'm not sure how that will work.
I made some mildly risky decisions with mileage around travel days. Before the trip I knew I should take a day off -- could feel it in my body -- but I deferred two days because I'd lose two day to flight travel. That worked against me a bit and my junk flared up. With it sorted I raced the Postman down the mountain. Felt fine at the time, but toward the end of the run I could feel a tendon on the inside of my knee start complaining. I took an extra day off, but it still nagged me. Just mild discomfort. After the 2nd long-run with the group (19miles) I took 3 days due to an aborted run because of pain and 2 travel days. So, now I'm monitoring the knee. It only really hurts when I'm going down stairs. After warming up in a run it doesn't bother me.
Mileage has been good so far: avg around 68/week in Dec. The last week straddling Jan it dipped to 30 or so because of the above rest. However, the niggles + cold + bad-footing have killed the zeal I had before Croatia. I was really in a rhythm, doing doubles. Trying to find that training sweet-spot again.
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I signed up with the Fleet Feet "Boston 365" program after meeting a few Sub3s in that group -- with the promise that it would involve car-pools out of town for long runs. Before leaving for Croatia I got their two training plans. Quite a surprise. There's a "normal" and a "high mileage" one. The high-mileage one peaks around 50mpw. I think there are only 2 20miler runs. Not exactly what I'd expect from a Boston plan. Though, to be fair they do have "Cross-train" as part of the plan.
Last Saturday I went to the first meet-up. There was a lot of kowtowing to Adidas, who is a sponsor of the program. This was all lost to me, because $130 for a crappy training plan and some people to run with doesn't really need Adidas. Maybe I get a shirt. There's a luxury option that includes a VIP van for the marathon, but that costs extra and I'm not running it anyway.
Their first "long" run was a 5miler. Again, things are just jarringly different here in Chicago. In Cville you're expected to show up for the first long-run of training for a 15miler. Well, unless you're doing the "My First Marathon" program. But this is a Boston targeted program, so I don't get it. I had 10miles with 8 @ MP on my schedule from Coach. So, I asked around who the fast guys were. Funny, it was kinda silly to ask: you can basically tell your pace groups by legs and bodyfat. The 3:30 marathon guys were going to run an "easy" 6:45 pace, so I tagged along with them. Very nice guys. Friendly . . . and young.
This week their "long" run is 10miles. I have a 20miler on my calendar. 10miles alone in this cold is going to be tough.
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Upon hearing of my dissatisfaction with the vibe of the FF crew, Wrigs hooked me up with the USole folks. Before Croatia, I showed up for Monday run to a bunch of guys and a few women milling about in the back of their quaint store. It's hard to explain, but the vibe was very different. It wasn't "rah rah!" it was "run run!". No cheerleading. Just: hey, we're doing this run. What pace are you looking for? [with the undercurrent of -- hmm, can you keep up with this group? ]. Then off we went.
UncleCranky, whom Wrigs had introed me to via RA, welcomed me and then bid me to keep up. This was a 10mi run at about my MP, or a little faster. You know how you're not sure you can keep up with the lead guys, so you look back for your fallback group? Yeah, well in this run I looked back and the next group was right behind me. In otherwords, everyone was pretty much keeping this pace. Sure, there were some very fast guys up front, but nobody was doing slower than 6:55. Heck, there were women in front of me. Always great to see. . . . really.
I had some trouble keeping up with the group. UncleCranky set a solid pace. Stop-lights provided some repeave. We passed the Trough and I started to lose contact with the group. They were speeding up, or I was really slowing down. I couldn't keep with them and stick with that pace for another 2miles, so I let them go . . . only to find out they were stopping to gather the troops in 600m.
Monday I ran with those guys again at about 6F. UncleCranky and I had a bearcicle contest -- which he won flat-out with that crazy mustache of his. Good people.
2021 Goals: 50mpw 'cause there's nothing else to do
TCM-10: I always fear tempo runs. But last week the MP run went well, so that was an okay-sign. The mid-week 3x3mi Hanson workout on the treadmill did not. That had my spirits low when I wrote my last post. However, my 20miler in 15F went blazingly well yesterday. It has rekindled my spirits and dusted away some of my pessimism. The pace for the run was 7:39 avg with a very large negative split. The first half were mostly around 8min pace, with the second half mostly around 7:20 pace. Or something like that. The last mile I cranked out 6:55.
Knee felt fine. Junk felt fine.
I don't think I've ever finished a 20mile run exhilarated and feeling like another 4 would be cake. Much less doing this solo.
I parleyed my enthusiasm into the 20% (below zero) discount at the New Balance shop, even though it was only below freezing (15%).
I was supposed to follow this up with an easy 8 today, but got suckered in by a couple of pacers on the trail. Was cruising at 8:10 pace behind a woman, and so went to pass her at that pace. When we got shoulder to shoulder she stepped it up. This was kinda funny to me, so I just matched her speed. A mile later we were 7:25 or so. She was working, and I was at a loss on how to show my appreciation without coming off as a douchebag. So when the trail split, I waited for her weight to shift in one direction and I took the other, letting her off the hook. But I think there was a fire in her -- she kept that pace from what I could tell.
Then I met a cellular biologist next. He snuck up behind me and went to pass. I just matched his pace. I think we were around 7:30 then 7:15 by the time we split three miles later. When we parted he called out, "okay, next Sunday?" I laughed and shouted, "sure!"
Today: Knee is sore. Spirits are high.
Which NB store did you shop at Stadjak? Their Hyde Park store has a few group runs during the week, and one Saturday mornings (all on the lakefront path). Can't vouch for the weekday runs, but I know the Saturday morning group can draw some quicker folks if you're interested.
The one on Fullerton, in Lincoln Park. Does Hyde Park really come all the way to the Lakeshore for their runs? I guess they just meet somewhere there, rather than meet at the HydePark store and run over together.
Do you run with them?
I think the one in Lincoln Park might have group runs, ask Kevin (the manager) if they're planning anything. But yeah, the Hyde Park group runs are on the southern section of the path. If you've done the September half in Chicago its basically the same general area, paralleling Lake Shore Drive.
I occasionally pop into the city for the Saturday morning runs (I live in Palatine so getting down there can be a hassle), and I run for their semi-pro team if that's what you were asking.
good to see you back in the hunt man.
I dig your commitment in trying to find others to run with, I need to find a way to do that myself.
One thought, and I might be a minority here, but it doesnt seem likely to me that a hip fracture is an overuse injury. I hope you got a metabolic work up...I'd suspect the diet and other factors before biomechanics. fwiw Vitamin D has been shown to reduce stress fracture in at risk people, I'd definitely consider supplementing.
Good luck making through the Chicago winter....days are already getting longer.
LW, thanks for the suggestion. I doubt Vit-D is a problem. I drink about a gallon of milk a week (down from 3 in my HS days). However, during the time I was a Fish eating vegetarian with a relatively crummy diet. So, that might have been a thing. Also, i was a caloric deficit trying to make a good race-weight. All those things might have contributed if it were a metabolic problem.
Finding new running mates has been an interesting experience in the cultural differences of running group -- mainly in the way of organization and communication. Maybe because it's a big city, but Facebook is a really popular way for these clubs to organize. I'm not 16 or 65, so I don't use facebook. Had to create an account just for running, though. Also, Strava is a big thing. Not really my cup of java, but I'm giving it all a chance.
Ready to race!
Interesting thread. I've read through most of it. If you're looking for groups you may want to take a drive out to NW Indiana some Saturday or Sunday. We get some good group runs out here and we have a few routes that are hilly. I've been a 3 hour pace leader at the Chicago marathon for the last 4 years and I've also run a few besides Chicago so I'm on a similar training plan as you. The runners out here are pretty laid back and really receptive to new faces. I'm totally with you on the group running in the cold. It seems it's easier when your with other people that are suffering too.
Mescal
TRM-7: The last few weeks have been rather tough. I was on travel to MA, where I got a little excited about all the hills around where I was staying that I killed a Saturday MP run by over-doing it the Friday before. In Philly, I had to lay off my doubles because of work, and was boxed in by the other part of my schedule, so only manage 3 runs on the Schuylkill loop. I knew I'd be short in mileage that week, and wouldn't manage any quality runs, so I did something I rarely get to do during training -- I ran for the pure joy of it. For me this usually looks like this. Well lit path; good footing; 40F; beautiful river to run along; nothing but zeal. Back in MA I missed a 20miler because of 8" of snow and only a dangerous road to run on.
So, in short: for two weeks my training sucked. Missed all my quality runs. Low mileage due to travel. Over-eating due to travel. Started to feel rather low about my prospects for the race.
Back in Chicago I picked up my routine. Ran a nice AHR with the USole guys on Monday. 4x5min @ 10k Pace with the FF guys on Wednesday. (Ran with an Irish guy named Johnny, when the "6:20" group put down a "5:59" pace for their first interval. Both Johnny and I said F-that.) And two easy runs between.
But the schedule for today was a 15mi run with 12 @ MP. These MP runs scare me. They are confidence makers and confidence breakers. Because even though you have mileage as an excuse, you know that if you can't keep pace for 12miles, you certainly aren't going to do it for 26.2. So, instead of joining the FF guys outside of town where they do long runs on hills, I ran solo on the flat, which should be similar to my race.
Took me a long time to get out of the apt today. First 3 miles were the usual "how the heck do I ever run faster than this". But dropping into MP felt okay. I was shooting for 6:45, but usually ended up around 6:48. Kept going back and forth in a 3mi part of the Lakeshore Path so I had no excuses. Wind was kind. Temp (37F) was perfect. I managed the whole effort and even had enough to speed up for the last two. Didn't feel as invincible as I did last winter on similar (actually harder) runs. But I made it. And did it solo. And now my legs are letting me know it was a hard effort. Still, I'm filled with relief.
My current evaluation is that I'm probably in 3:02 shape. Eventually, I'm going to decide whether I want to chance a PR or be happy with a "good" marathon . . . with a disappointing "3" at the start. Getting to March 16th (day after TRM) uninjured would probably be the smartest thing to do.
Next week I'm on travel again. This time to DC. Fortunately, I've convinced my company to fly me around my running schedule: I've already contacted my buddies in CVille for the Saturday 20miler.
TRM-6: Hmm, my training has completely fallen apart. Snow. Travel (stuck in an airport). Business meetings. Dangerous roads. I still thought I could bring things together. But then on Friday around 2am I got hit with food poisoning. Every 40mins I'd wake to rush to the toilet trying to figure out which end to point at the porcelain. Around 6am I tried to shower and go to work only to avoid collapsing in the shower by running out onto the bed. Woke up completely wet and shivering an hour later. Took me until 1pm before I could make it out of the hotel to attempt my 2.5hr drive back to CVille. Almost stopped at CVS to do it the astronaut way, but my stomach settled when I got stationary in the car seat.
I had one slice of toast that day. Nothing before the 7am run with the old Sub3s out at Dick Woods. We were slated for 23miles (a Time on Feet run), but I wasn't sure how much of that I'd make. It turns out 11miles. Even during the first mile my legs felt beat, empty, exhausted and depleted. They felt like it was already mile 20 -- when mile 20 isn't going so well. If I weren't with Deric and Rick, I probably wouldn't have even attempted it, but I was so looking forward to spending 3hrs with these guys doing what we love.
At the very end I could feel my old injury complaining. I was focusing so hard on not puking, blowing my pants or passing out that I think my form was going to hell and I was just clomping along on my feet without cushioning the footfalls. I think this is also probably what caused the problem in the first place.
Took Sunday off and tried to run on Monday but could only manage 3miles. Still feeling the effects of flushing all the carbs from my body, and throwing my electrolytes off balance. Still eating toast and eggs. Lost 4lbs, though so I'm back to 168.
Today I went out for a slow 6 and felt better. Need to take it slow this week.
So I think this puts a nail in the coffin of my training season. I missed two key workouts (a tempo and a long run). Then I missed the ToF run. My mileage has been crappy. I haven't had many speed workouts. 5 weeks left. About the only good thing is that I'm not injured. I'll take it.
TRM-2: The wheels have fallen off.
Something pressing has come up at work; my team's jobs are on the line. I've had to decide between my fraternal commitment to the Sub3 guys from CVille and jobs. It wasn't a hard decision, but still an unfortunate one to have to make.
That's probably for the best, though. My recent training has gone into the crapper. The weather and snow have made me miss a string of key workouts; ironically, none of this was in Chicago where I have infrastructure in place to help me get around this stuff -- all travel related. Then the food poisoning. Now my wife has brought home her traditional pre-marathon contagion. Fever and a stuffed up head for the last 4 days, missing my last 20miler. I went from 65mpw on avg in Dec to 45mpw for Jan -- not the usual marathon training plan.
My last quality workout was some progression run: 5mi @ MP+30, 5mi @ MP+10, 5mi @ MP-10. There shouldn't be anything hard about that workout; I only made it 2 miles into the last set. I'm certainly in no shape for a "good" marathon. Best I could do it probably pace someone at 3:10.
I'm a bit relieved. My injury has been pretty okay. The only time it flared up was on the ToF run, when I was using my core to stabilize my bowels instead of as suspension. But other than that, I think it's ready for a race, or a marathon, but not both.
I think I'm going to try to collect what I can of this training season an apply it to one of those mini-marathons they call "Half" something or others. Then go all-in for Chicago.
So, "unfinished business" remains unfinished. Alas.
Best Present Ever
Bummer. Sorry things haven't gone well.
Sorry to hear that things aren't going as planned.
Chicago is supposed to be a fast course, maybe you can refocus and smoke a new PR on it.
Age: 50 Weight: 224 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)
Current PR's: Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)