Competitor Group Ends Elite Support (Read 613 times)


HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

    I stated my beliefs about business clearly. It is my answer to any reasons people come up with to why this company is supposedly morally or ethically obligated to pay elite runners (whether you are paying for their hotel or fee or paying them cash, you're providing them an income).

    This sounds a little bit like you're imputing a strawman argument to anyone that disagrees with you (something like "you people are incorrectly arguing that companies are obligated to support elites"). I've read the whole thread, and that doesn't sound like a fair characterization AT ALL of the discussion -- thus I termed it a "strawman" argument.

     

    You might believe it you know what is best for their bottom line, but so what? It's their bottom line, not yours or mine.

    Are you saying that you don't care what Jeff thinks ("so what")? You're certainly entitled not to care, but it seems odd to say that his opinion is irrelevant and then post over and over discussing (or, arguing with) it.

    I haven't seen evidence of the Competitor Group breaking any laws or not paying taxes. They provide a service for paying customers, who generally like their product and are willing to pay good money for it.

    This sounds like you're implicitly stating that "obeying the law" is the only moral standard that you respect. But I doubt that is so! -- so I'm probably misreading the intent of this stress on "BUT THEY'RE NOT BREAKING THE LAW" message that I seem to perceive here.

    It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

    memememe76


      I don't know why people can/should only criticize companies if they do something illegal. Walkers or slower runners who start in the front corral are not breaking any laws either, but that won't stop me from complaining about it.

       

      That said, I did the R&R Portland this past May and I had no problems with it. I thought it was well run and I enjoyed it--both the expo and the race. I also didn't find it particularly expensive, compared to other non-R&R halfs I have raced.

       

      In all of my races, the elites have made little impact on my experiences. Ironically, the biggest memory I have of the elite runners was at the R&R because an early portion of the race was an out and back, so we saw the elites running "back". Many of us clapped and cheered them. That was neat. But otherwise, they make virtually no impression. In contrast, when I am done my race I will watch the later runners cross the line. Their reactions stay with me and motivate me to continue racing.

       

      Even for spectators, the non-elites probably make more of an impression. An elite runner is less likely to clap a kid's outstretched hand, to acknowledge a funny sign, to grab an orange slice, or wear a funny costume.

       

      I won't ban R&R races, but I won't seek them out either.


      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

        A side-note: I'm not sure about the role of private equity firms, but there certainly is a huge literature on the "myth" or "tyranny" of believing shareholder value (i.e. generating profit) is the sole (or even primary) purpose of corporations.  Here's one brief overview.

         

        The criticism (in that article) of "shareholder value" (as penny-wise and pound-foolish, essentially) seems rather apt to this thread -- although it is a dimension not much focused on so far.

        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


        Feeling the growl again

          A side-note: I'm not sure about the role of private equity firms, but there certainly is a huge literature on the "myth" or "tyranny" of believing shareholder value (i.e. generating profit) is the sole (or even primary) purpose of corporations.  Here's one brief overview.

           

          Private equity firms do tend to favor short-term profitability over the long-term health of the company.  They typically are in it with an exit point in mind; get to the profit on that transaction, exit, and buy something else still at a higher potential to turn a profit.

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           

             

            Private equity firms do tend to favor short-term profitability over the long-term health of the company.  They typically are in it with an exit point in mind; get to the profit on that transaction, exit, and buy something else still at a higher potential to turn a profit.

            Yup.

            To clarify my earlier post, I'm not sure if there's a parallel literature on the role of private equity firms.

            TripleBock


              There are many for profit races that people have no idea are for profit.  Of course some of these lose money ... so they are "for loss" races.

               

              Why do people volunteer?  To be part of something in their comunity ~ Any race is part of the comunity (non-profit or for profit)

               

              Most races need so many volunteers that the race model for fail horribly without the free labor.

               

              I see many races evaluating their price money and decide to scale it back or to eliminate it completely.  I think that is fine, you evaluate what you want to be and make changes.

               

              On course entertainement and elites mean nothing to me when I am looking for a race.  Course, cost and post race fun are the most important things (Good free beer scores a lot of points with me)

               

              I can find lots of 1/2 marathons for $40 or under and marathons for $80 or a lot under.

              I am fuller bodied than Dopplebock

              TripleBock


                Every company wants to create share holder value.   What shareholder's value at each company might be different ~ Dividends, increase in share price, community involvement, protecting the environment or/and enriching the lives of employees are all things that shareholders could value.

                I am fuller bodied than Dopplebock

                   

                   

                  In all of my races, the elites have made little impact on my experiences. Ironically, the biggest memory I have of the elite runners was at the R&R because an early portion of the race was an out and back, so we saw the elites running "back". Many of us clapped and cheered them. That was neat. But otherwise, they make virtually no impression. In contrast, when I am done my race I will watch the later runners cross the line. 

                   

                   

                   

                  I had the same experience at one of my first races, the Newport 10,000m.  It had a huge impact on me. I remember taking pictures with them and talking with them.  They drove all the way out from Pennsylvania to Jersey City, for a relatively small payday.  I really got the sense that, while they seemed like really happy people, financially they were struggling.

                   

                  Meeting them and hanging out with them and their families after the race remains one of the best experiences of my running life.

                   

                  But thinking about those runners, their situation, and the current position of CGI, makes it really clear to me that my values are not at all aligned with CGI's.  I don't resent them, but they won't get one red cent out of me.  They expressed their values with their wallet, and so will I.

                  "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                     But thinking about those runners, their situation, and the current position of CGI, makes it really clear to me that my values are not at all aligned with CGI's.  I don't resent them, but they won't get one red cent out of me.  They expressed their values with their wallet, and so will I.

                    I wish I could wordsmith my thoughts as well as some of you but Nader hit it pretty close for me. This setiment carries over to other business as well.

                     

                    Like Triplebock I really don't care about the on-course entertainment. I really do not care about the elite field but like nader, I had a great time hanging out with a few of them the last time I did the Green Bay marathon. And it was pretty cool to get invited along for a shake out run the following morning.

                     

                    I'm not sure why Runblugrun's blog struck such a note with me. Being around a couple of olympic trial hopefuls is certainly part of it. Hanging on to the way things used to be done is also a big part of it.

                     

                    We do have races that are highly sucessfull that make a very big deal out of the elite field...The Bix 7 is the first that comes to mind.  While I'm sure they would still get 11,000 entrants if they dropped the 20 or so elites but what fun it is to watch a local like Bryan Glass or Corey Towle run elbow to elbow with these guys. Come to think of it...I do not run this race for one reason. I couldn't watch it if I ran it.

                    www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building

                      An checkbox to donate an extra $5-10 (or in lieu of a shirt/medal)to the top 20-30 will get my vote. In a race of 5000 with 20% choosing to do so, that's $5000-$10000, not much but maybe enough to cover race expenses for the faster folks.  Thoughts?

                        An checkbox to donate an extra $5-10 (or in lieu of a shirt/medal)to the top 20-30 will get my vote. In a race of 5000 with 20% choosing to do so, that's $5000-$10000, not much but maybe enough to cover race expenses for the faster folks.  Thoughts?

                         

                        Like!

                         

                        (But to the top 5 Smile)

                        "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


                        HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                          What does Dean Karnazes think of them?

                          It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                            haha.. I was thinking the same thing.

                             

                            btw.. has DK broken the vaunted 3 hour barrier? I'm super impressed by his running achievements!

                             

                            What does Dean Karnazes think of them?

                            Dont call it a comeback

                            elodie.kaye


                              Many large races (for-profit or non-) recruit volunteers through a kick-back to their charity.  For example, I know the Santa Barbara marathon gave to a local high-school XC program in exchange for volunteers. The volunteers were drawn from the school's team, so the race benefited from enthusiastic, relatively high-quality labour, and supported the local running community.  Obviously, this kind of synergy is easier to achieve when it's a grassroots organiser putting on the race.  However, I'm sure Competitor is aware of this volunteer model.


                              Consistently Slow

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