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70% of runners take ibuprofen before every workout. Say what? (Read 1357 times)


Feeling the growl again

    Suck it up buttercup. 

     

    Masking an injury (or soon to be injury), with any kind of pain meds is just stupid.  If it's normal soreness/pain from a tough run (like what I felt yesterday from my 26.25 mile run), then you just deal with it and let your body heal.  Don't like it?  Then find another hobby.

     

    Good for you if it makes you feel macho, but it is far from stupid in some cases.  With my particular problem, the stabbing pain from nerve irritation causes the surrounding muscle to reflexively tighten around the nerve and exacerbate thE problem.  This creates a vicious cycle that makes the problem escalate.  A single dose of ibuprofen once a week or so, when this flares up, reduces the inflammation around the nerve and the pain-induced tightening of the muscle with resulting nerve irritation.  So the problem can go away in a number of hours rather than debilitating me for several days.

     

    If you read the article mstuart posted, most of the negative effects are for people who prophylacticallytake these drug forextended periods....NOT for occasional users.

    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

     

      This is relevant to my interests...tell me more about Curamin.  1.5 weeks out from my fracture I am taking 1 dose of Norco before bed (10/325, IIRC).  I'm leery to take it more often than that in large part due to several unpleasant side-effects.

       

      Any other recommendations for better bone-healing and what to expect in terms of return to activity?  I already suspect that my mtn biking may be limited for at least a year (so much for my plans of going big when I hit the big four-oh), since my wrist and hand strength will take a long while to rebuild.

       

      Curamin is Turmeric (Curcumin) based supplement with some complimentary substances that have been shown to have  a positive effect on pain and inflammation. Curcumin has a wide range of benefits. You can Google it or go to Greenmedinfo.com   www.curamin.com

       

      You are on Norco for your fracture healing which is a non NSAID. Hydrocodone and Acetaminophen It is typical medicine given after a fracture. The severe fractures or post op often require Oxycodone which is stronger.  As far as healing your fracture. Aside from a bone healing system, I think the best thing you can do is be nutritionally sound and keep the fracture stable. The docs I deal with tell their patients a lot of things. One may say to load up on calcium and Vit D. Another recently said to be sure to get enough protein. I heard a new one last week. The doc said to megadose on B12. I kind of take it in and give the advice above. Eat well, graze, high nutrient foods with ample protein and you should be fine. I tell patients if you feel you don't well (many don't or smoke) then you need to supplements.

       

      A side note of Vit D. Many docs will send patients for a Vit D blood test if they are not healing well. If deficient (which is common in upper Midwest), it can affect bone healing.  As far as your progression of healing. That wrist should be healed in 8 weeks for you (being a healthy young lady). In the one study done using the ultrasound bone stim vs placebo, healing time using device was about 60 days and not using device about 95 days in acute distal radius fractures. This was average and included smokers or a population typical of what is out there in America. I don't think you fall into the 12 week category. I think you can be 100% in 3-4 months.

      Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!


      A Dance with Monkeys

        sigh.

         

         

        < rant>

        Pain.

        or Dialysis. Forever.

        I'll take pain.

        -----------------------------------

        Blood flows into your kidneys in arteries. The arteries branch smaller and smaller until they are tiny little arterioles. These deliver blood to the microscopic unit in the kidney responsible for making urine, called the glomerulus. Those arterioles delivering blood to the glomerulus are called afferent arterioles. Those collecting the blood out the other side are called efferent arterioles. There are several hormonal mechanisms for making sure that the pressure head on the blood is sufficient so that you make appropriate urine even when you are dehydrated.

        Ibuprofen and other NSAIDs mess with the hormonal control over the arterioles and essentially causes the blood to stop flowing to the glomerulus. This can cause a sharp decrease in urine and in oxygen delivery to the kidneys. The latter can kill off kidney cells in great number.

        The effect of NSAIDS is mitigated by adequate hydration. If you are dehydrated, the protection is gone and the effect of the NSAIDS on the hormonal control over your afferent arterioles is gone. You can cause substantial and permanent kidney damage. Bad.

        When glomerular filtration is limited, your body may try several mechanisms to fix the problem using other hormonal systems. This combined with reduced renal function can cause a dangerous increase in potassium and a drop in your sodium. Also bad.

        -----------------------------------

        You never know the day that your ibuprofen or other NSAID you take while running will cause renal failure, and it is not wholly dependent on hydration.

        The pain of marathoning and training can be expected. Why do you feel the need to stop that pain? Because you don't like it? Marathoning is supposed to hurt. I'm not talking about the pathologic pain of injury; if you have that, address the injury (rather than hiding it under some drug). I see way too many people in my practice and in the world who want to run but don't want to hurt while running. Sadly, it does not always work that way. Don't risk your health to hide the pain. Learn to accept it, to feel it flow through you, to guide you and teach you. Pain is not your enemy.

        Jeff, a local RA member, a 2:35 marathoner and professional philosopher (really) once wrote this: "For me, racing is not about overcoming pain. It's about as running fast as I can. The pain is just the way the body speaks to you, a side phenomenon. It's silly to try to overcome it or attack it. We talk about the "pain" of running as if it were a single phenomenon. Actually, in running as in life there are many different sorts of pains, and one can learn to distinguish these pains in order to respond to them differently. It is very rare that generating the sensation of "pushing through it" is the appropriate response to pain. My sense is that generating that feeling is just layering one type of pain on another."

        -----------------------------------

        The standard nonprescription dose of motrin/ibuprofen/advil is 400 mg every 6 hours. Not 600 mg. Not 800. And certainly not 1000 mg. Sure, your doc may prescribe doses higher than 400 mg, but you are NOT your doctor (nor should you be, even if you are a doctor). The higher the dose, the greater the risk of injury to your kidneys, to your electrolytes and to your GI tract.

        < /rant>


        Feeling the growl again

          I know there is evidence in mice (97% of the genes of humans) that shows a negative effect in skeletal muscle heaing post injury. I would have to look further for human evidence. Cox 2 enzyme activation is a key component for all healing. As you know, NSAIDS inhibit Cox 2.

           

          In my world, I deal with bone/fracture healing.  In the acute fractures I deal with, orthopaedics docs and podiatrists will always recommend their patients to not take NSAIDS for several weeks and beynd early inflammatory healing phase.  It is pretty much a standard now in the industry to not take NSAIDs if trying to heal a fracture.    From my perspective from the outside looking in, my opinion is that periodic use is probably ok. Also, with all medicine you weigh the benefits vs risk.  I take it on occasion.  I now usually take a natural product (ani-inflammatory) now called Curamin for inflammation and discomfort. I have noticed similar results and am quite happy with it.

           

           

          As an FYI, the active ingredient of this product is thought to work through the same or nearly same mechanism as ibuprofen, from what I read briefly.  So the potential negative effects may be similar.  Just because something is a natural product does not mean it is safer.  It is still a chemical altering a process in the body.  You could chew on willow bark as well, but your body would not know the difference between that and aspirin as the active ingredient is the same.

           

          The major difference is that neither the safety nor the efficacy of the natural product needs to be established to sell it.  

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           


          Needs more cowbell!

            The docs I deal with tell their patients a lot of things. One may say to load up on calcium and Vit D. Another recently said to be sure to get enough protein. I heard a new one last week. The doc said to megadose on B12. I kind of take it in and give the advice above. Eat well, graze, high nutrient foods with ample protein and you should be fine. I tell patients if you feel you don't well (many don't or smoke) then you need to supplements.

             

            A side note of Vit D. Many docs will send patients for a Vit D blood test if they are not healing well. If deficient (which is common in upper Midwest), it can affect bone healing.  As far as your progression of healing. That wrist should be healed in 8 weeks for you (being a healthy young lady). In the one study done using the ultrasound bone stim vs placebo, healing time using device was about 60 days and not using device about 95 days in acute distal radius fractures. This was average and included smokers or a population typical of what is out there in America. I don't think you fall into the 12 week category. I think you can be 100% in 3-4 months.

             

            This is what I suspected.  Protein and calcium are easy for me--I'm a cheese-loving carnivore!  D...yeah, that is tough when it's dreary so much and I'm now trapped indoors until the ortho gives me more freedom.Undecided

             

            I wonder if it might be wise to have my bone density checked.  I doubt that it's low, as I don't really have any risk factors and I run...but does running only strengthen lower body bones?  I'm thinking I need to do more planks and upper body weight work once I'm healed, maybe...?

            I shoot pretty things! ~

            '14 Goals:

            • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

            • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

              This is what I suspected.  Protein and calcium are easy for me--I'm a cheese-loving carnivore!  D...yeah, that is tough when it's dreary so much and I'm now trapped indoors until the ortho gives me more freedom.Undecided

               

              I wonder if it might be wise to have my bone density checked.  I doubt that it's low, as I don't really have any risk factors and I run...but does running only strengthen lower body bones?  I'm thinking I need to do more planks and upper body weight work once I'm healed, maybe...?

               

              You're seeing an ortho, yes? Seems like they could offer advice on whether you need to check your bone density.

                This is what I suspected.  Protein and calcium are easy for me--I'm a cheese-loving carnivore!  D...yeah, that is tough when it's dreary so much and I'm now trapped indoors until the ortho gives me more freedom.Undecided

                 

                I wonder if it might be wise to have my bone density checked.  I doubt that it's low, as I don't really have any risk factors and I run...but does running only strengthen lower body bones?  I'm thinking I need to do more planks and upper body weight work once I'm healed, maybe...?

                 

                Generally, your family doc will handle the monitoring of bone density and osteoporosis. You build peak bone mass by age 30. This is key to help ward off osteoporosis later in life. Risk factors for bone loss are heredity, smoking, slight frame and menopause. You can lose 20 percent of your bone mass the first 5 years after menopause. I don't think you have any of those risk factors.  Without those risk factors, your doc will probably have you wait until menopause to get a test and a baseline. 

                 

                Any wt bearing exercise can help maintain bone mass. This includes running and resistance work. Squats, lunges apply and are great for core work.

                Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!


                Mmmmm...beer

                  Good for you if it makes you feel macho, but it is far from stupid in some cases.  With my particular problem, the stabbing pain from nerve irritation causes the surrounding muscle to reflexively tighten around the nerve and exacerbate thE problem.  This creates a vicious cycle that makes the problem escalate.  A single dose of ibuprofen once a week or so, when this flares up, reduces the inflammation around the nerve and the pain-induced tightening of the muscle with resulting nerve irritation.  So the problem can go away in a number of hours rather than debilitating me for several days.

                   

                  If you read the article mstuart posted, most of the negative effects are for people who prophylacticallytake these drug forextended periods....NOT for occasional users.

                   

                  It's not about being macho, it's about not pushing when your body is telling you it needs rest (not talking about you, just people in general).  I don't know your history, but if there's no way to treat the nerve irritation, and that's what you have to do to keep running, then that's your choice to make.  I'm new to running, but I've already seen a lot of people who push through pain and minor injuries, only to end up being sidelined for months with serious injuries.  Those are the people I was talking about.

                  -Dave

                  My running blog

                  2015 Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-37 10k | sub-1:23 HM | sub-4 trail 50k

                    "Suck it up, buttercup."

                     

                    "It's not about being macho."

                     

                    I have this crazy feeling that experienced, long-term runners know when to listen to their bodies and when not to.

                    "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
                    Emil Zatopek

                      sigh.

                       

                      Trent, every time you post this, the threshold at which I'll take NSAIDs goes up just a little bit more.

                      "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
                      Emil Zatopek


                      Feeling the growl again

                        It's not about being macho, it's about not pushing when your body is telling you it needs rest (not talking about you, just people in general).  I don't know your history, but if there's no way to treat the nerve irritation, and that's what you have to do to keep running, then that's your choice to make.  I'm new to running, but I've already seen a lot of people who push through pain and minor injuries, only to end up being sidelined for months with serious injuries.  Those are the people I was talking about.

                         

                        That was hard to guess from your post, which started with "suck it up", ie take the pain and keep going-- at least that is how it read to me.  I agree that one needs to assess whether they should be running through whatever is causing them pain and be willing to not run and let it heal versus popping painkillers and slogging on.  However sucking it up and continuing to run sans drugs is not any better.

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         


                        Mmmmm...beer

                          That was hard to guess from your post, which started with "suck it up", ie take the pain and keep going-- at least that is how it read to me.  I agree that one needs to assess whether they should be running through whatever is causing them pain and be willing to not run and let it heal versus popping painkillers and slogging on.  However sucking it up and continuing to run sans drugs is not any better.

                           

                          Guess I could have worded it better.  My suck it up comment was in reference to the normal soreness that can accompany a hard workout, certainly not in regards to legitimate pain. 

                          -Dave

                          My running blog

                          2015 Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-37 10k | sub-1:23 HM | sub-4 trail 50k

                          kateruns


                            spam
                            brady steele


                              Last year I consumed over 1000 advil just for running.

                                In seriousness, and out of concern, you should probably stop doing that.

                                 

                                I've seen from the other thread that you're going to slow down to closer to true easy paces for your easy days--that should go a long way.

                                 

                                Last year I consumed over 1000 advil just for running.

                                "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
                                Emil Zatopek

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