The Bible on The History Channel (Read 414 times)

    Collateral Damage.

    Ricky

    —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka


    Prince of Fatness

      .

       

      That's quite thought provoking.

      Semi-retired.

         

        That's quite thought provoking.

         

        It was... this was what you missed

        2014 Goals:

        #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

        #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

         


        Mmmmm...beer

          How does an everloving and forgiving God kill toddlers, babies, pregnant mothers with unborn children

           

          This is one of my main sticking points with god/religion.  How can a supposed loving and caring all powerful diety allow innocents to suffer?  Even past the story of Noah, in today's world, innocent children suffer all the time, and not just as a result of the free will of others, they suffer through nature via disease.

           

          Like Kris, I fully support everyone's right to believe/worship as they choose, that is one of the great things about this country, we have freedom.  It can be difficult to have civil conversations about religion tho, it can be a very heated subject for some.

          -Dave

          My running blog

          2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M

             

            It was... this was what you missed

             

            For context, my point was that we could go on and on playing Google one-up.

            "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


            Interval Junkie --Nobby

               

              How does an everloving and forgiving God kill toddlers, babies, pregnant mothers with unborn children?  --  There are many questions, but that one question alone has me absolutely stuck.  I will be honest:  I get confused greatly when I hear folks say that God was "pro life - all infants and unborn children are pure and innocent and should be protected" as is taught in the bible, yet apparently God himself killed every infant, toddler and unborn child in the flood events, as written in the bible?   I understand many millions of people believe in the bible.  I fully respect that and think that belief system + structure is a great thing for many people and families.   However I am personally baffled on how believers feel about that pro-life versus the horrific events that occurred in the ark story.

               

              In the Torah God is not really considered "all loving" but instead characterized as "wrathful" and "jealous".  The unborn children were not free of sin, since they inherited the "original sin" of Adam.  The omni-benevolent god appears in the New Testament.

               

              However, why the omni-benevolent god allows children to die of cancer,is a perennial question that can only be countered with epidemiological modesty: "we are too limited to understand the mind of God".  Terribly unsatisfying, to be sure.

              2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

              Current Status 08/28: Slowly working back up from a pelvic stress fracture.  4mil distance PR w00t!

                 

                For context, my point was that we could go on and on playing Google one-up.

                 

                I know. but apart from that snarky comment part which I left out of my post, I was enlightened by the link.

                2014 Goals:

                #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                 

                   

                  I know. but apart from that snarky comment part which I left out of my post, I was enlightened by the link.

                   

                  Which is why I took it out and just got out of the whole thing. I think snark has come full circle and is a totally weak and banal.

                   

                  If I don't have time to say something thoughtful, I'd just as soon stay out.

                  "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                    This is one of my main sticking points with god/religion.  How can a supposed loving and caring all powerful diety allow innocents to suffer?  Even past the story of Noah, in today's world, innocent children suffer all the time, and not just as a result of the free will of others, they suffer through nature via disease. 

                    I had a nephew pass away at 15 months old due to a degenerative disease that was diagnosed when he was 3 months old.  The priest that gave the homily at his funeral read excerpts from the homily that I have linked below.  It's worth a read no matter your beliefs

                     

                    In my mind every moment in your life is a test.  It was a test for us to watch him suffer and lose him, it was a test for him to go through the pain and the procedures and the poking and prodding, but he never stopped smiling.  He was an amazing little boy.

                     

                    But some things that stuck out for me in the homily were

                     

                    "The world breaks everyone, then some become strong at the broken places."

                     

                    God doesn't go around this world with his fingers on triggers, his fists around knives, his hands on steering wheels. God is dead set against all unnatural deaths.

                    The one thing that should never be said when someone dies is "It is the will of God." Never do we know enough to say that. My own consolation lies in knowing that it was not the will of God .....God's heart was the first of all our hearts to break.

                     

                    I walked a mile with Pleasure,
                    She chattered all the way;
                    But left me none the wiser
                    For all she had to say.

                    I walked a mile with Sorrow
                    And ne'er a word said she;
                    But the things I learned from her
                    But oh, the things I learned from her
                    When sorrow walked with me.
                    --Robert Browning Hamilton

                    http://www.pbs.org/now/society/eulogy.html


                    Mmmmm...beer

                      FSBD, I'm very sorry for your family's loss, I can't even imagine.

                       

                      I find it interesting that no one will blame god for things like this, but most will thank him when someone is cured of a disease..a disease that god could have prevented from ever taking hold, or even existing (if god created everything...why did he create cancer?).  I always have to come back to Epicurus:

                       

                      "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

                      -Dave

                      My running blog

                      2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-40 10k | sub-1:25 HM | BQ done! | sub-3 M

                        Thanks

                         

                        I'm no theologian but in my mind It's the whole test thing.

                        Given these difficulties can you prove yourself worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven?

                        mab411


                        Proboscis Colossus

                          I find it interesting that no one will blame god for things like this, but most will thank him when someone is cured of a disease..a disease that god could have prevented from ever taking hold, or even existing (if god created everything...why did he create cancer?).

                           

                          Well, I think plenty of people blame God for things like this.  And, I don't know that "most" thank Him when a disease is cured.  But I understand your point.

                           

                          I've heard it the other way, too: when misfortune strikes, we tend to shake our fists at God and demand to know why He allowed it to happen.  When something good happens, though, or just when everything's generally going well...not really much thought given to why it has to be that way.

                          "God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people

                            There is another.

                            Man lost dominion of this world.

                            Ricky

                            —our ability to perform up to our physiological potential in a race is determined by whether or not we truly psychologically believe that what we are attempting is realistic. Anton Krupicka

                            TxDiverMom


                              FSBD, I'm very sorry for your family's loss, I can't even imagine.

                               

                              I find it interesting that no one will blame god for things like this, but most will thank him when someone is cured of a disease..a disease that god could have prevented from ever taking hold, or even existing (if god created everything...why did he create cancer?).  I always have to come back to Epicurus:

                               

                              "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

                               

                              In my mind (Southern Baptist upbringing), God is a JUST God.  He believes in total and complete fairness.  In the Old Testament, he created the world and the Garden of Eden (and I actually do believe in evolution...I believe that's how God did it and that they never will find that actual connection (The Missing Link) between apes and man because God created man.) and it was perfect until Adam and Eve sinned.  Eve was enticed by the Serpent (Satan) who made sin look beautiful and fun.  (Yep, it still often looks that way!)  Once man had sinned, then sin was in the world forever and God could no longer have the same loving relationship he had previously with man.

                               

                              I don't believe God created cancer.  I believe he allows cancer.  Satan has control over much in the earthly world.  God allows it.  I don't mean that diseases, problems, death, etc. is caused by the sin of a specific individual at all, but that it is in the world and God allows it to continue.  (See Job)  I do believe that God CAN heal if He chooses to do so, but that most often He chooses to allow all in the world to go on without His intervention.  I also do believe that God hears and answers prayer, but often the answers may not be what we are hoping for.

                               

                              I agree with the other poster who said God doesn't see man overall as innocent, but as sinful.  God is loving, but He is also just, vengeful, and jealous.  He demands things from us and doesn't get them at all.  Therefore, unless we are covered by blood (lamb's blood in Old Testament days and Jesus's blood now), we are guilty and will be punished to a life of eternal damnation.  If we are covered by the blood, He overlooks our sin and we spend eternity in heaven with Him.

                               

                              This is a very general explanation of what many evangelical Christians and many Protestants believe.  There are differences in free will and original sin, but this is the general explanation.

                              mab411


                              Proboscis Colossus

                                Thanks

                                 

                                I'm no theologian but in my mind It's the whole test thing.

                                Given these difficulties can you prove yourself worthy to enter the kingdom of heaven?

                                 

                                Hmm...gonna have to disagree that anyone is worthy to enter the kingdom of Heaven, tested or not.

                                 

                                My prayer whenever horrible events happen is always that God will work the situation to His glory, however roundabout and incomprehensible His methods (and sometimes, "His glory") may seem to me.  Which sometimes brings up the question of whether he causes these things to happen, or if they happen as the result of a fallen world, at which point I stop worrying about it.  Not because it's a question not worth asking, but because it's a question that is unanswerable.

                                 

                                A lot of people at that point then go on to consider whether a god who causes/allows evil to happen is worth worshipping, which is also a moot point for me.  If there is a "one, true God" (and obviously, I think there is), there's not really much point debating His ethics.  I'm just thankful that He loved me enough to provide a way to get closer and closer to Him, and ultimately, into Heaven itself.

                                "God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people