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| Lactate threshold... ??? (Read 571 times) |
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posted: 6/3/2008 at 11:44 PM |
| Quote from DJ Marcus on 6/3/2008 at 6:14 PM:
Just cause you pour syrup on it, don't make it a pancake.
Just in case anyone missed the cogent point that Marcus made... 
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Mr R |
posted: 6/4/2008 at 12:33 AM |
Whether it exists, it accurately describes something that runners experience, and training at that level produces results. I also think it's a bit much to describe the Central Governor as a major competing theory. It's not nearly as widely accepted, and it doesn't really replace the aerobic/anaerobic model of performance. It mostly just complicates that model.
RE: cumulative effects of LT training
VO2Max improvements are limited. Depending on the athlete, after about 6 weeks of interval training, he or she will probably not see further developments in VO2Max.
In contrast, LT improvement continues more or less indefinitely, from season to season. LT training is also unlikely to cause burnout or injury the way that intervals can.
Interestingly, the most measurable difference between East African runners and Caucasians is that the East Africans tend to have much higher LT. |
| What was the secret, they wanted to know; in a thousand different ways they wanted to know The Secret. And not one of them was prepared, truly prepared to believe that it had not so much to do with chemicals and zippy mental tricks as with that most unprofound and sometimes heart-rending process of removing, molecule by molecule, the very tough rubber that comprised the bottoms of his training shoes. The Trial of Miles, Miles of Trials. How could they be expected to understand that? -John Parker |
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posted: 6/4/2008 at 12:49 AM |
| Quote from Mr R on 6/4/2008 at 12:33 AM: Whether it exists, it accurately describes something that runners experience, and training at that level produces results. I also think it's a bit much to describe the Central Governor as a major competing theory. It's not nearly as widely accepted, and it doesn't really replace the aerobic/anaerobic model of performance. It mostly just complicates that model.
Yes.
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posted: 6/4/2008 at 12:53 AM |
Good advice on this thread.
I think that it's important not to get too caught up in the physiology. No runner wants to improve their lactic threshold (whether it exists or not), what we want to improve is our racing ability. One consequence of all the physiology terminology that has been inserted into training talk over the last few years is that folks get caught up thinking about heart rate and vo2 and LT and all that and they forget that training is, essentially, practice. You are not making yourself into a lactic-processing machine. When you are training, you are practicing running.
Think about the sorts of practices that running requires: Runners practice running a variety of paces. They practice running fast, running smooth, running easy, and running strong. They practice going up hills and down. They practice sprinting. They practice running longer. They practice running race pace. They work on their form. They practice running goal pace. They practice the art of racing.
Ask yourself: am I a complete runner? In what ways am I incomplete? What sort of training would broaden my abilities as a runner? What could I be doing that I am not yet doing? What type of training has worked in the past? And why did it work? To me, these are much better questions because they focus on the actual things that we do instead of on the physiological concepts that are basically a translation of what the runner does into the language of the scientific laboratory. This translation serves the interest of science, but I'm less and less convinced that it serves the interests of runners. |
a vagabond,..highway-beater; a rolling stone, one that does nought but runne here and there.
~Cotgrave, Randle A dictionarie of the French and English tongues, 1611
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posted: 6/4/2008 at 1:00 AM |
| Well said, Jeff. |
| Run like hell. |
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posted: 6/4/2008 at 2:08 PM
modified: 6/4/2008 at 2:09 PM |
| Quote from Trent on 6/3/2008 at 11:31 PM: What evidence have ye that LT actually exists?
Lactate is a byproduct of anaerobic metabolism, it does accumulate in the bloodstream, it's concentration in blood can be measured, lactate threshold is one of these measurements.
If you're going to argue whether lactate is 'good' or 'bad', don't bother because that concept has nothing to do with lactate threshold. |
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| view log Slow-smooth-fast |
posted: 6/5/2008 at 12:10 PM |
| Quote from PowerOfQ on 6/4/2008 at 1:00 AM: Well said, Jeff.
I second this. What I have found on this forum is that people, I, myself included have become obsessed with LT,vo2max......the list goes on. It is much better to go by what Jeff said and not get too caught up in the technical side of things. Time and consistency I believe is the key to what we all want to acheive. |
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Professional Magician |
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| view log I did it! |
posted: 6/5/2008 at 1:05 PM
modified: 6/5/2008 at 1:07 PM |
I tend to agree... BUT... lets look at a similiar situation...
to loose weight eat less... sure that will work but if you do it in a more education controlled manner you will get better results and be less hungry and loose less muscle than if you didn't pay close attention to protein intake and not creating too big of a caloric deficit etc etc complex carbs... etc.
same goes for running. If we try to get faster by running too much we get injured... or if I run my easy runs to fast and my tempo runs too slow... etc...
I'm not getting too caught up in it. I am planning. I will make a plan then work it. I ask questions and learn. I asked questions about my marathon pace and got great advice. I got info on how to predict my marathon pace based on weekly milage etc...
people suggested I focus on some serious miles compared to what I was doing...
In this case I think the point that was made and well taken was to read Daniels book and do what he says...
I'm doing it... In stead of trying to crunch speed work in to a much shortened plan, I am going to extend my focus to the rest of my year. I will focus on peaking for an oct 1/2 marathon. that gives me 25 weeks and it fits nicely into Daniels plan. The 5ks and 15ks I have also fit nicely into the plan. And in the process of running more and having more fun running I'll work in some other types of runs (besided recover, long, and easy) into my runs.
Then I will get in some quality work I am craving and do so in a systematic way.
And throughout the year I will get a chance to see how I respond to different types of training.
On top of that doing a 25 week 1/2 marathon plan from the daniels book should put me in position to PR in the 5k, 15k and 1/2...
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2008 goals
Cleveland Marathon < 3:59:59 3:38:48sub 22:00 5k 20:46 HH firecracker 5000PR in the 15k this fall** 1:09:56 in a 10 miler- Have more fun = run more
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posted: 6/5/2008 at 1:29 PM |
| Quote from jsobo119 on 6/5/2008 at 1:05 PM: If we try to get faster by running too much we get injured...
who's 'we'? |
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Carps10 view log |
posted: 6/5/2008 at 1:38 PM |
| Quote from JimR on 6/5/2008 at 1:29 PM: who's 'we'?
word. i do whatever the hell i want, with no negative consequences. |
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| view log Got The Life |
posted: 6/5/2008 at 4:53 PM |
| jsobo119....it looks to me like you understand and have laid out a nice plan. Have fun. |
| The Gaijin Samurai. a.k.a The attorney dissin' attorney.
Read and Listen
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| view log I did it! |
posted: 6/5/2008 at 5:49 PM |
| Quote from DJ Marcus on 6/5/2008 at 4:53 PM: jsobo119....it looks to me like you understand and have laid out a nice plan. Have fun.
I hope I didn't give off a "know it all vibe"
sorry if I did...
And whoops on the we thing... that is a me thing...
Thanks all for making me think... |
2008 goals
Cleveland Marathon < 3:59:59 3:38:48sub 22:00 5k 20:46 HH firecracker 5000PR in the 15k this fall** 1:09:56 in a 10 miler- Have more fun = run more
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| view log Got The Life |
posted: 6/5/2008 at 7:23 PM |
| Quote from jsobo119 on 6/5/2008 at 5:49 PM: I hope I didn't give off a "know it all vibe"
sorry if I did...
Don't worry. You just completed your first marathon. Now that you know you can go the distance, you want to do it faster.
That happens to everyone. |
| The Gaijin Samurai. a.k.a The attorney dissin' attorney.
Read and Listen
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posted: 6/6/2008 at 3:03 PM |
| Quote from jsobo119 on 6/5/2008 at 1:05 PM: I'm not getting too caught up in it. I am planning. I will make a plan then work it. I ask questions and learn. I asked questions about my marathon pace and got great advice. I got info on how to predict my marathon pace based on weekly milage etc...
More power to you, brother. I think my post came off as dismissive and argumentative, but I didn't take what I was writing to be opposed to any of the other (very good) advice that you got. Sounds like you've got the right attitude. Keep asking questions and keep running hard! |
a vagabond,..highway-beater; a rolling stone, one that does nought but runne here and there.
~Cotgrave, Randle A dictionarie of the French and English tongues, 1611
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