Forums >General Running>I think the answer is it always 'it depends' but too much?
So as I transition to this crazy distance of 26.2 I'm trying to figure out what from my past still applies and what must be forgotten.
its only 4 10k's. i think you could do that now without much trouble.
I think 40-50 MPW is about as little you could run and excel @ marathon.
To me a minimum of a 2 hour long run
I know 1000s (1k) is popular for 5k training. I think one should be either taking an exceedingly short recovery or try a little longer interval training for marathon training.
LAT running would be beneficial to both 5k/10k and Marathoning - LAT = 1 hour race pace.
I do not have your genetic talent level you acheived in college - I also follow a different way of think about training. If I were training for 5k/10k only - I would run hard 3x a week and easy the rest. I would do a 2 hour run each week and hit 70-100 MPW.
I find myself trying to split the difference between Ultra-Training and marathon training. 2 moderate workouts each week. "Long" run means a run between 30-50 miles. Goal mileage 110-150 mpw.
Long dead ... But my stench lingers !
Fast is better than long
I think that couts as much as 3 weeks ago when I claimed I did a 27.5 hr marathon 3:30 with a 24 hr break at mile 13.5.
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What in the Jehu?
If I got to pick your workouts
5x4 minutes @ current 5k pace with equal recoveries
or
5x5 minutes @ current 30 minute race pace with equal recoveries
+
12-16 x 400 fast with 400 recoveries
8-12 hill repeats
20-25 minutes @ 1 hour race pace (LAT)
4-5 x 2 miles @ LAT or LAT + 5-10 seconds
5x1 mile @ LAT
1 long run 90-120 minutes each week - max 150 - If you only want 3 workouts I would suggest making one of the above workouts part of your long run.
If I got to pick your workouts 5x4 minutes @ current 5k pace with equal recoveries or 5x5 minutes @ current 30 minute race pace with equal recoveries + 12-16 x 400 fast with 400 recoveries or 8-12 hill repeats + 20-25 minutes @ 1 hour race pace (LAT) or 4-5 x 2 miles @ LAT or LAT + 5-10 seconds or 5x1 mile @ LAT + 1 long run 90-120 minutes each week - max 150 - If you only want 3 workouts I would suggest making one of the above workouts part of your long run.
I look at your mileage and wish I had cars that reliable. I agree that a 1Ks do nothing for the Marathon. I think I do it to stretch my lungs and cardiovascular system.
All my speed works are moving recovery at 1/2 distance because I do want the endurance more than the speed, but I agree it could and should be longer and probably not have to be 6 min and below.
Also since, in my opinion, I am so new to this running thing again, I really don't know my 5K pace or have the internal clock on pace so I think part of my training has been trying to find the boundaries. Let's hope I don't go that my too far in the testing of boundaries
Sweet! I just got a coach I do appreciate the advice and the constructive reasoning.
srlopez' sincere response
For Nobby-san.
I don't think you're running too much. But it partly depends on how you feel - if you feel sore, tired, little aches and pains all the time then maybe it's enough. You didn't (I think) say how old you are... but there are plenty of people in their 40s and 50s doing more miles than you.
Looking quickly through your log I'd say you'd have a decent chance of hitting your stretch goal of 3:20 given that you still have a while until your marathon. I suggest that you try doing an 18 mile or so run with the second half at your goal pace. If that doesn't feel too hard on the back of a decent weeks running then with a couple more months training and a decent taper you should be OK.
Hey thanks for reading so far, now my questions/concerns. Because of my younger days I feel this mileage can be nothing but good, so long as it doesn’t cause injury. I doubt this is true of 40+ yr olds. Is a weekend of 15 – 15 just abusive instead of doing say 18 or 20 and 10 so that I actually have “long” runs or is 30 miles training 30 miles training I do have a goal of a marathon in Nashville April 30. As a first timer I have the simple goal of finishing, but I will say that my running seemed to improve a lot in just the first 3-4 months and with 3 months to go I may be able to have higher aspirations. I doubt the speed work is really helping the marathon, but I can feel that it opens up my breathing and stretches out my legs, so that I can feel more comfortable at sub-8 pace for longer periods of time. My thinking is that running a 1/2 , mile, K at a really fast pace makes the training paces feel more comfortable. While I am trying a marathon, I don’t know if I want to be a marathoner so much as a road racer (5-10K). Does any of this concern any of you more practiced marathoners? If I am paying attention to my body and not running through tiredness or soreness should I be concerned that I am so far ahead of most first tome marathoner schedules? Is the European swallow any faster than an African one?
Hey thanks for reading so far, now my questions/concerns.
The people in Africa swallow much faster. Europeans masticate and release the bolus down the esophagus in a very loungy manner.
You can get away with a heavy training load, one that is too heavy, for a little while, but eventually it catches up with you. I'm not sure how fast you really are right now, but looking at your log, you are running your 15 miler as a tempo, and doing intervals as well. I suggest that you do the following:
--read and entertain any of the master Nobby's posts, and research Lydiard
--run hard day/easy day
-- If you have time, do some kind of time trial, like a 5k race, or a 3k on a track. Then take your results and pop them into one of the popular calculators like McMillan or Team Oregon and use the suggested spreads for aerobic running. Then build an aerobic base first. Spend maybe 12 weeks just working your aerobic system/base, building volume slowly. Then introduce some faster stuff like fartlek or tempos.
--on easy days, go very easy. Being able to recite the Gettysburg Address without having to catch your breath kind of easy. If you have a heart-rate monitor, stay below 65-70% MHR. Just keep it real easy.
Research building an aerobic base. People do it in different ways, but ultimately they are trying to attain the same result: building aerobic speed (getting faster and faster at an aerobic effort) and endurance while staying healthy.
This will ready your body for the hard stuff like tempos and racing.
Here's a link to a Mark Allen article where he talks about how he did everything hard for years, resulting in injuries, and then he began to work on his aerobic system, then periodized his training. He would spend 12 weeks at a very low aerobic HR, building volume to high levels, using an 8k aerobic time trial test to monitor his aerobic development, then after 12 weeks he would introduce hard stuff, then race, returning to base training when his 8k aerobic time trial tests began to go south. The first link is his article and the second is an excerpt from the Lore Of Running about Mark Allen. It gives you the basic idea about periodization that I'm writing about and suggesting that you research:
article
Lore Of Running excerpt on MArk Allen's training
Good luck. I hope you find something that works for you and keeps you healthy at the same time. Remember, you can be fit enough to run 26 miles fast, but if your getting injured and sick (from an overtraining--induced lowered immunity) along the way, it isn't good health and will ultimately cut your running journey short.
--Jimmy