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Advice on speedwork for upcoming 10 miler in 10 weeks (Read 1004 times)

mark-bixler


    Just finished a 10K race over the weekend and was overall pleased with the result despite lackluster training the last couple of weeks.  I have now decided to run a 10 miler on October 27th (about 10 weeks away).  It is on a flat course and I wanted to try and increase my speed just a bit.  My pace for the 10K on a fairly rollong course was around 7:36ish.  Anyway, I am looking for advice on the type of speed workouts I can incorporate into my training over the next couple of months to try and maximize my potential for the upcoming race.

    Listen. Yeah, it's gonna hurt some. That's the marathon business.

    But here's the thing. When it starts to get intense, that's not time to panic. This is what you wanted to happen. It means that all the training, all the miles, all the wakeups, all the cold, all the wet, all the sleep-deprived days and all the shit you've done to yourself over the last 6 plus months is finally about to pay off. It means you've put yourself where you wanted to be. You've given yourself an opportunity that very few will ever have. You've given yourself a chance.

    Now finish it.

      Can you provide more about your running background & history, and what you've done the past year? 

      mark-bixler


        Well, let's see.  I haven't done much actual racing in the last year.  Before this 10K the only other race I had done was the Blue Ridge Marathon (halfe-marathon portion).  Not sure that is much of a gauge as it is not your typical race, but I completed that in 1:50 and change but felt lousy at the end.  When not preparing for a race (which is most of the time) I run about 30-35 miles per week.  I have three full marathons in my past and averaged about 50-55 mpw for those.

        Listen. Yeah, it's gonna hurt some. That's the marathon business.

        But here's the thing. When it starts to get intense, that's not time to panic. This is what you wanted to happen. It means that all the training, all the miles, all the wakeups, all the cold, all the wet, all the sleep-deprived days and all the shit you've done to yourself over the last 6 plus months is finally about to pay off. It means you've put yourself where you wanted to be. You've given yourself an opportunity that very few will ever have. You've given yourself a chance.

        Now finish it.

          Tempo runs, longish progression runs, long intervals with short recoveries, long hill repeats. And just run more--that's probably the #1 thing you could do to improve your 10 mile time.

          Runners run.


          day after day sameness

            I can only share what has helped me at the 10K and 10Mile distances....which is to mix in more interval and tempo workouts. For example:

             

            Week 1: interval - 6 or 8 x 1/2mi at hard effort with 3/min recovery jog between

            Week 2: tempo - 6-8mi at 10mi pace

            week 3: interval - 4 or 5 x 1mi at 1/2 marathon/10mi  effort with 4 min recovery jog

             

            ...rinse and repeat.

            Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

              I can only share what has helped me at the 10K and 10Mile distances....which is to mix in more interval and tempo workouts. For example:

               

              Week 1: interval - 6 or 8 x 1/2mi at hard effort with 3/min recovery jog between

              Week 2: tempo - 6-8mi at 10mi pace

              week 3: interval - 4 or 5 x 1mi at 5K effort with 4 min recovery jog

               

              ...rinse and repeat.

               

              Well. Those don't sound very fun. Joking

              They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                Or possible.

                Runners run.


                day after day sameness

                  Or possible.

                   

                  Hmm...they're from your advice in the past.  Is there something in how I phrased them?

                  Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

                    Hmm...they're from your advice in the past.  Is there something in how I phrased them?

                     

                    Are you sure? I don't think I've ever advocated 6-8 miles at 10 mile race pace. I definitely have never done that workout. I think 3-4 miles at 10 mi pace would be about my limit in a tempo run. If I were to do a 6-8 mile tempo, that would have to be at more like marathon pace.

                     

                    As for 4-5 x 1 mi at 5k, I have friends who swear by 4 x 1 mile at 5k pace but I've never pulled it off myself, and never attempted 5 of them. At 10k pace might work, but I would still consider that a pretty tough workout.

                    Runners run.


                    day after day sameness

                      I think you might want to consider that us duffers may run them a bit less stridently...

                      Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

                        Are you sure? I don't think I've ever advocated 6-8 miles at 10 mile race pace. I definitely have never done that workout. I think 3-4 miles at 10 mi pace would be about my limit in a tempo run. If I were to do a 6-8 mile tempo, that would have to be at more like marathon pace.

                         

                        As for 4-5 x 1 mi at 5k, I have friends who swear by 4 x 1 mile at 5k pace but I've never pulled it off myself, and never attempted 5 of them. At 10k pace might work, but I would still consider that a pretty tough workout.

                         

                        Yea, this seems spot on to me. Going beyond 3-4 miles at 10 mile race pace wouldn't be anything I would call a tempo; it's probably doable but would be just a flat out very hard workout.

                         

                        I've heard people say 4xmile @ 5k pace with 2-3 min recovery can be a super challenging 5k workout that is a good predictor, but that has got to be the absolute upper limit of what might be possible and even then is probably a race effort. 5xmile @ 5k just sounds not possible.

                        They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                          I think you might want to consider that us duffers may run them a bit less stridently...

                           

                          Guess it depends on how much difference there is. Obviously an elite runner running 5k in 13:00 is putting out different effort for 5k than someone who runs it in 26:00, given that a 13:00 effort should be much harder than a 26:00 effort. Not sure how much difference there is though between a 17:00 race effort and a 25:00 race effort, maybe 5-10 seconds a mile?

                          They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."


                          day after day sameness

                            Fuck it...you're right -- those workouts can't be run.  To the OP -- sorry about hijacking your question. Hope you get some good direction.

                            Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

                              Yea, this seems spot on to me. Going beyond 3-4 miles at 10 mile race pace wouldn't be anything I would call a tempo; it's probably doable but would be just a flat out very hard workout.

                               

                              I've heard people say 4xmile @ 5k pace with 2-3 min recovery can be a super challenging 5k workout that is a good predictor, but that has got to be the absolute upper limit of what might be possible and even then is probably a race effort. 5xmile @ 5k just sounds not possible.

                               

                              When I am in shape and weather is not 80+ degrees I can generally run 6-8 miles at 10mile to 1/2 marathon pace as a tempo run.  Let's say you are a 18:00 5k pace.  This works out to 6:15 pace for 6 miles.  Add two miles easy before and after and this makes for a nice workout, and on good days I would call it fun.  Hard yes, certainly not even close to impossible.

                                I have done an 8 mile tempo run at HM pace, but that was really hard -- more like a time trial than a tempo. When I did it, I knew that I could hold that pace for a HM race. (Actually if I remember correctly it was 8m at 5:45 pace and I ended up running 5:42s for the HM.)

                                 

                                But the purpose of such a run was really to see if my fitness was where I thought it was (this was right when I was getting back into running.) It wouldn't have been a good workout for training.

                                 

                                The classic Jack Daniels "lactate threshold" tempo run is 20 minutes at 10 mile race pace. 

                                 

                                If you want to practice running 10 mile or HM pace, I really like 3 x 2 miles @ HM with maybe 4 minutes jog between. You can get the 6 miles of work without having to get close to that race effort.

                                 

                                Another good aerobic workout is 8 x 3min fartlek w/90s easy jog. You'd probably start at around 10 mile pace on these and work down to 10k pace.

                                 

                                The best work that you can do for this type of racing is just steady, high end aerobic running -- your classic progression run. <--- this article is also good on why we should be more focused on effort than pace.

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