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Increasing running mileage vs adding some light biking (Read 1591 times)

    "Overall, Ironman-distance racing is not about being fast.  It is about being able to swim smart, ride strong, and run tough.  Many athletes believe that they need to run hard and run a lot to perform well.  Run training is important, but it is not the key to success." pg32.


     

    I like this quote the best.  I don't have much experience dabbling with triathlons as I would much rather run but I have several close friends that compete in them.  Fo me, running is a priority and if I had time to do something, I would rather just run.  Some of my friends have a hard time understanding that but their priorities are with triathlons.  I have competed in one and my opinion is that run fitness does help bike fitness. 

     

    From my personal experience, running fitness will carry a triathlete much further in shorter distance races.  You can fake your way through a 20 mile ride and still have a decent run, however, when you get to the half and full distances, it gets down to riding strong and running tough that will get you to the top.  Just as one would spend more time running for a marathon, a triathlete would spend more time on the bike the longer the distance gets.

      Brian

       

      I don't think anyone can argue with the logic or reasoning behind the excerpts you quoted from Joel Friel.

       

      I think what Scout and certainly myself take exception with is the comment below about running fitness not translating to biking fitness. (not that it has anything to do with the OP)

       

       

       This has not been my personal experience. In fact, a simple excercise of running an all out 4k and then hoping on the bike will show you pretty quickly that there are many common muscle groups shared by both activities.

       

      I'm a much stronger cyclist than I am a runner. In the past four years my focus has pretty much been on running. With out any specific bike training I was able to set a new 40k time trial PR.  I was pleasantly suprised last Feb to find that I could hang with the big dogs in a metric century on nothing more than a daily bike commute. I also realize that my personal experience in no way proves a damn thing.

       

      Gotcha.  I was looking and focusing on the 1st clause of Burnt Toast's statement, not the 2nd clause.

       

      I bought my 1st road bike in 2009 (or at least my 1st road bike since 1990 anyway).

      I ran for about 8 years consistently before I bought my bike, and I'd agree that my running fitness helped me with my baseline cycling.  There were concepts that I didn't understand with cycling and I seemed to be mashing the pedals in the early months, but in my 2009 sprint triathlons, I had a decent MPH (19+).

      But, for me, in 2009, a 35+ mile bike ride seemed crazy, challenging, and tiring while a long run seemed more natural and easier to recover from.

      2014 Goals:

      #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

      #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

       


      Feeling the growl again

         

        From my personal experience, running fitness will carry a triathlete much further in shorter distance races.  You can fake your way through a 20 mile ride and still have a decent run, however, when you get to the half and full distances, it gets down to riding strong and running tough that will get you to the top.  

         

        The few duathlons I did, I only biked 1-2 times in the couples weeks beforehand and that was it.  I was around a 16:20-16;30 5Ker at the time; I'd be in 1-3rd place at the end of the first run, maybe drop only 4-5 spots on the bike, and I think I ended up 3rd or 4th OA in both of them.

         

        In other words, with practically zero bike-specific fitness I could fake my way through 16-20mi rides and finish very well for myself.  I'd be stupid to try that at the ironman distance.  I have a friend who is a good runner (former 32-flat 10K runner) who did an ironman, I don't recall his splits but it was lopsided....his difference in bike/run fitness showed.

         

        Back in HS I did go from 19:30 to 17:20 for 5K in one season almost exclusively through biking.  But I would have to wonder what could have been if I'd dedicated all that time to running.

        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

         

          Brian

           

          I don't think anyone can argue with the logic or reasoning behind the excerpts you quoted from Joel Friel.

           

          I think what Scout and certainly myself take exception with is the comment below about running fitness not translating to biking fitness. (not that it has anything to do with the OP)

           

           

           This has not been my personal experience. In fact, a simple excercise of running an all out 4k and then hoping on the bike will show you pretty quickly that there are many common muscle groups shared by both activities.

           

          I'm a much stronger cyclist than I am a runner. In the past four years my focus has pretty much been on running. With out any specific bike training I was able to set a new 40k time trial PR.  I was pleasantly suprised last Feb to find that I could hang with the big dogs in a metric century on nothing more than a daily bike commute. I also realize that my personal experience in no way proves a damn thing.

           

          With all due respect, Slo, you have nearly 2000 miles of your bike commuting this year.

           

          The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

           

          2014 Goals:

           

          Stay healthy

          Enjoy life

           

            With all due respect, Slo, you have nearly 2000 miles of your bike commuting this year.

             

            LOL...Actually it's probably more than that but good point...I don't get everyday logged. I'm likely pushing 5000 or so total bike miles for the year. Very few of those are actual "Training" miles. A lot of are "party ride" miles...Ride 12 drink 3. I can account for 500 miles of doing that across the State of Iowa.

            www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building

              I don't understand this idea of "fake your way through" the bike portion of a tri or du. Maybe you people are much better cyclist then you thought?

               

              In a triathlon I actually competed in, the fastest overall runner ran a 4k with a 5:32 pace, but finsihed 33rd of 172 on the bike. I would say he is not a very strong cyclist and maybe his running fitness has helped him get to that level on the bike, I don't know.

               

              The guy that took first overall was second on the run and first on the bike. Friends of mine know him pretty well and said he has always been a fast runner (1:15:00 HM) but its taken him alot of time and effort to get his cycling to where it is. His past running did not help his cycling but cutting down on running and adding more cycling has not hurt his run.

               

              I placed 18th overall on the bke and do very little more then Slo-Hand in the way of training for the bike. Its mostly easy rides and commuting. Has my running helped my cycling? Maybe, but I'd lean towards the 2000 miles of biking that I did this year more then the gawd awful running I was doing.

               

              The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

               

              2014 Goals:

               

              Stay healthy

              Enjoy life

               

                LOL...Actually it's probably more than that but good point...I don't get everyday logged. I'm likely pushing 5000 or so total bike miles for the year. Very few of those are actual "Training" miles. A lot of are "party ride" miles...Ride 12 drink 3. I can account for 500 miles of doing that across the State of Iowa.

                 

                Training miles? Isn't much like running in that easy or recovery miles are also training miles?

                 

                Run 12 and drink 3 fits into alot of peoples run training. I can think of one in particular that posts here regularly.

                 

                MTA: I'm on vacation right now and its time to go swim, bike and run at the YMCA.

                 

                The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                 

                2014 Goals:

                 

                Stay healthy

                Enjoy life

                 


                Feeling the growl again

                  I don't understand this idea of "fake your way through" the bike portion of a tri or du. Maybe you people are much better cyclist then you thought?

                   

                   

                  The guy that took first overall was second on the run and first on the bike. Friends of mine know him pretty well and said he has always been a fast runner (1:15:00 HM) but its taken him alot of time and effort to get his cycling to where it is. His past running did not help his cycling but cutting down on running and adding more cycling has not hurt his run.

                   

                   

                  "faking through" as in doing almost no bike training yet being able to keep up pretty well with people who do.  You said running fitness does not translate to biking; if I can get in 16:30 5K shape, then go out and do a duathlon and hold 22mph for about an hour on a 1990-vintage road bike not properly set up for me, I think the running must translate to biking pretty well, wouldn't you say?

                   

                  To an extent the reverse is true....but back to the OP, if you have a sport-specific goal it is better to train specifically than mix the two.

                   

                  Regarding the 1:15 HM guy you give above you say it hasn't hurt his run...do you mean his run during a multi-sport event or his run in an absolute sense, as in his open HM time?  There's a difference there, as well as whether he's only cut down the running for one training cycle or over an extended period of time.  A good runner can get away with swapping out some running for awhile...maybe a year...but eventually the lack of specificity will show itself.  Been there done that...

                   

                  As to training miles on a bike vs running, in running unless you REALLY take it down to a hobby jog even an easy run is decent training value.  We get a lot of cyclists past my place....some are getting in good training.  Others are logging miles in the middle of the peleton, but while they are logging miles they spend as much time coasting...exerting almost no effort...as they do peddling.  You can cover a lot of ground on a bike without putting in much training effort, since you have a wheeled vehicle to coast on.

                  "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                   


                  Needs more cowbell!

                    "faking through" as in doing almost no bike training yet being able to keep up pretty well with people who do.  You said running fitness does not translate to biking; if I can get in 16:30 5K shape, then go out and do a duathlon and hold 22mph for about an hour on a 1990-vintage road bike not properly set up for me, I think the running must translate to biking pretty well, wouldn't you say?

                     

                    I'd say you're a freak of nature and I hate you! (said with affection and awe...seriously, that's enviable) Tongue

                    I shoot pretty things! ~

                    '14 Goals:

                    • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                    • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                      I'd say you're a freak of nature and I hate you! (said with affection and awe...seriously, that's enviable) Tongue

                       

                      I'd concure, he's a much better cyclist then he gives himself credit for.

                       

                      The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                       

                      2014 Goals:

                       

                      Stay healthy

                      Enjoy life

                       


                      Feeling the growl again

                        I'd say you're a freak of nature and I hate you! (said with affection and awe...seriously, that's enviable) Tongue

                         

                        Perhaps.  I wish I biked more.

                        "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                         

                          "faking through" as in doing almost no bike training yet being able to keep up pretty well with people who do.  You said running fitness does not translate to biking; if I can get in 16:30 5K shape, then go out and do a duathlon and hold 22mph for about an hour on a 1990-vintage road bike not properly set up for me, I think the running must translate to biking pretty well, wouldn't you say? 

                           

                          If this is true, maybe you should start thinking about entering the Duathlon realm and putting in some bike time. Seems like you could possibly go PRO with some cycling training and a newer, aero bike and that 5-10k of yours.

                           

                          As for the triathlete I mentioned, I don't know him personally so I can't give you the specifics you asked about. All I can tell you is he's freaking fast in a tri and his bike portion has greatly improved (16.5 mph average in some of his first events to 22.5 in the latest) but is by no means a fish. As far as I can tell, his run times have not fallen with the emphasis on the bike.

                           

                          To be clear, I siad "where as run fitness does not help bike fitness much if at all".

                           

                          I also posted my opinion after a couple others, including yourself, wrote that adding extra run mileage at this time may or may not be a good thing (paraphrasing here) depending on recovery and if you can handle extra miles right now. You also went on to say "if you really want to do tris you have to do it even if it hurts your running somewhat.  Period.  So that decision becomes easy.  Adding a bit of biking will be easier on you recovery-wise as long as you are already used to biking....however, it will be only moderately useful in making you a better runner." Jeff also suggest biking or adding nothing to the OP at this time in his training.

                           

                          modified because Its tough to type with two fingers and get it right.

                           

                          The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                           

                          2014 Goals:

                           

                          Stay healthy

                          Enjoy life

                           

                            I'd concure, he's a much better cyclist then he gives himself credit for.

                             

                            Spaniel just stated he ran at 5:19 pace and rode at 22 mph pace. That's just chillaxin'! Back in 2009 I did a duathlon and ran at 7:35 pace (my 5K was only about 22:00 at the time so I wasn't sandbagging) and rode at 21 mph pace on a mid 90s vintage steel road bike. No offense intended to Spaniel at all but... a cyclist of his running caliber would be going much, much, much faster, probably on a Huffy. That said, I too think he is a better cyclist than he probably gives himself credit for.


                            Needs more cowbell!

                              Perhaps.  I wish I biked more.

                               

                              What's stopping you?  I even know a really awesome bike shop in Holland, MI, if you thought you might ever want to give it a go on a bike that really fits you. Smile

                              I shoot pretty things! ~

                              '14 Goals:

                              • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                              • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                                Spaniel has some talent...that talent would cross over to most any type of endurance sport I would suspect.

                                 

                                I find that in a duathlon that the "Runners" who are novice bikers generally fair better than the "Cyclist" that are novice runners. I am only saying this from my own experience within my little circle.

                                 

                                My own experience has also been that going for a bike ride with a seasoned runner is generally at a pace closer to my own than going for a run with a seasoned cyclist. Plus we'll likely have to stop sometime before the 2 mile mark.

                                www.hplg.net  The Human Powered League - Solo Cup Series - Trail Building

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