Wealth Inequality (Read 403 times)


Prince of Fatness

    I know people who actually get money BACK when they file their taxes (which still floors me)

     

    I usually do.  Granted it is not much, and most of it is confiscated by the good state of NJ when I file with them.

     

    This will come to a stop next year since I have no more college students to claim on my deductions.

    Semi-retired.


    an amazing likeness

      ...carry on...

      Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless


      A Saucy Wench

        I know people who actually get money BACK when they file their taxes (which still floors me).

         

        I usually do.  Well at least from the Federal gov't.  The great state of Oregon doesnt do deductions for the most part.   I manage my withholdings carefully to try and balance it out.    Back when it mattered I had a string of 5 years in a row where I neither owed or was owed more than a net $100. File federal in february, get my refund, send it to the state.

         

        I used to be a big proponent of never get a refund, but now that short term interest rates are basically zero I dont balance it quite as carefully and I shoot for a small net refund which filters directly to long term savings.

        I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

         

        "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

           

            I thing Spaniel might be referring to people who pay nothing in to begin with.

             

              Add me to the list of people who get more back than I pay in on some years.  Military in a Tax free zone, I am one of the 47%'ers.  Damn.  :-)  (Some of this due to W-4 deduction though, I claim M-2 but am really M-5, so I get back a nice check, which I throw in the IRA every February).

               

              But that adds to the argument:  Can't cut taxes eternally or the deficit increases.  Can't raise taxes either very much, that would slow personal spending and possibly cause a recession.     Can't raise intrest rates, that'd cause a recession,  but can't drop them either if the need were to arise.  Can't go below 0.   What happens the next time we hit a recession and can't cut taxes any more, and can't cut rates because they are at Zero?      Catch-22?

               

              PS.  Stop with teh bOObs.  I am......losing...my.... will to talk about.... economics..........

              -- What were we talking about again?

              The Plan '15 edition (big parts)→  /// April '15:  Hampton, VA 24 Hour Run for Cancer  (Goal: >80.1+Miles)  ///   Run streak, at least a mile every single day for 365.  ∞

                I suppose we could look to Japan as a similar example of this?  They work their a$$e$ off, and they save their a$$e$ off.  They are doing the prudent and 'fiscally responsible' things as citizens.  And yet their economy has been jammed in a recession for 30 years! ...

                 

                 

                These are kind of out of date and imprecise characterizations of today's Japanese economy. Labor participation and hours are way down from 2000. Savings rate is about the same as US and Europe now (b/w 0-2%). Have not been "in recession for 30 years"...80's growth about 4%, since 1990 1.5% (so yeah, real slow) - but actually gdp per capita far outpaces US (because their population is shrinking and they aren't big on immigration. So, anyway, all the Japanese debt crisis inputs and outputs are in some ways similar but in many ways super different than US, and things are very different there now than they were in 1990s. Not discounting your thought process, just think you could understand a bit more about that particular economy as it seemed some of your characterizations were wrong.

                Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes


                Feeling the growl again

                  I thing Spaniel might be referring to people who pay nothing in to begin with.

                   

                  Exactly.  They paid zero in income taxes and get a check back from the feds when they file.

                  "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                   


                  A Saucy Wench

                    ah fuck it.  We're all screwed.  Go run

                    I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                     

                    "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


                    Feeling the growl again

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       

                        Go run

                        I just got back from my run (actually, it was a swim, but...)

                         

                        It didn't help.

                        2014 Goals:

                        #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                        #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                         

                          Way overpaying for college degrees (people spend $20-30K/yr for liberal arts degrees that are lucky to make more than that in salary upon graduation), home equity loans to buy crap you don't need, buying too much house for your income level or renting, not saving money...

                           

                          Sounds like people are making a lot of poor financial decisions.

                          From the National Center for Education Statistics Fast Facts:

                           

                          Of the 1,650,000 bachelor's degrees conferred in 2009–10, the greatest numbers of degrees were conferred in the fields of:

                          • business (358,000);
                          • social sciences and history (173,000);
                          • health professions and related programs (130,000); and
                          • education (101,000).

                          [At the master's degree level, the greatest numbers of degrees were conferred in the fields of education (182,000) and business (178,000).  At the doctor's degree level, the greatest number of degrees were conferred in the fields of health professions and related programs (57,700); legal professions and studies (44,600); education (9,200); engineering (7,700); biological and biomedical sciences (7,700); psychology (5,500); and physical sciences and science technologies (5,100).]

                           

                          In recent years, the numbers of bachelor's degrees conferred have followed patterns that differed significantly by field of study. While the number of degrees conferred increased by 33 percent overall between 1999–2000 and 2009–10, there was substantial variation among the different fields of study, as well as shifts in the patterns of change during this time period:

                          • The number of bachelor's degrees conferred in the combined fields of engineering and engineering technologies increased 8 percent between 1999–2000 and 2004–05, and then increased a further 12 percent between 2004–05 and 2009–10.
                          • In contrast, the number of degrees conferred in health professions and related programs was less than 1 percent lower in 2004–05 than in 1999–2000, but then rose 61 percent between 2004–05 and 2009–10.
                          • The number of degrees conferred in biological sciences was 4 percent higher in 2004–05 than in 1999–2000, but then increased by 31 percent between 2004–05 and 2009–10; and
                          • the number conferred in physical sciences and science technologies also was 4 percent higher in 2004–05 than in 1999–2000, but then increased by 22 percent between 2004–05 and 2009–10.

                          Some technical fields experienced a contrasting pattern:

                          • After an increase of 43 percent between 1999–2000 and 2004–05, the number of degrees conferred in computer and information sciences decreased by 27 percent between 2004–05 and 2009–10.
                          • Other fields with sizable numbers of degrees (over 5,000 in 2004–05) that showed increases of 30 percent or more between 2004–05 and 2009–10 included multi/interdisciplinary studies (30 percent); homeland security, law enforcement, and firefighting (42 percent); and parks, recreation, leisure, and fitness studies (46 percent). 

                          “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

                            Some thoughts from a dismal runner scientist:

                             

                            The crisis of 2007-2008 was driven by a glut of liquidity chasing returns.  This is everything from the guy down the street doing a cash-out refi to fix and flip a spec house, to sovereign investment funds (i.e. Kuwait) using leveraged capital to chase returns.  Most investment strategies worked very well during this time because all of this capital created a lot of momentum, until the bubble finally burst, and it wasn't just real estate.  2009 saw massive deleveraging, from households all the way up to the largest funds in the world and the magnitude of the deleveraging definitely aggravated the crisis.

                             

                            If you want to realize the American dream and get into that top 0.1%, you cannot possibly do it on your own.  You either need to have a lot of employees working for you, or a lot of people paying you rent, or a lot of risk capital at your disposal, or an inheritance.  Luck is also a big factor: right idea, right place, right time, right execution.

                             

                            Most people get into severe financial trouble due to an unexpected increase in expenses (most often: medical bills) or an unexpected drop in income (job loss or business slowdown).

                             

                            While most wealthy people have a college degree, having a college degree won't make you wealthy -- and middle class is not necessarily a lock either.

                             

                            Even though the estate tax is back, further reform is required, as the combination of a high exemption for generation-skipping trusts and elimination of meaningful limits on perpetuities in some states means that the scenario depicted in The Descendants (selling the island due to the end of a trust lifetime) need not happen.  It is now more possible than ever for a child to be born in the US with substantial assets and guaranteed income for life and beyond control of the parents, at the instructions of an ancestor that passed away before the child was born (i.e. aristocracy).

                            2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.

                              ^^^^You guys are wise + I enjoy reading your comments.

                               

                              Some thoughts from a dismal runner scientist:

                               

                              If you want to realize the American dream and get into that top 0.1%, you cannot possibly do it on your own.  You either need to have a lot of employees working for you, or a lot of people paying you rent, or a lot of risk capital at your disposal, or an inheritance.  Luck is also a big factor: right idea, right place, right time, right execution.

                               

                                 Agreed.  Although It seems that the number of people who have the "right idea, right time" and made their wealth that way is decreasing over time.  Less and less people seem to be in this position as innovation is not progressing as fast as it was in the past.   Many folks take risks in trying to hit it big (opening restaurant chains, etc), but how many succeed?

                               

                                 I'll stick by my personal premise:  The best most "Average guys" can do safely is live on 90% or less of his income, then invest the other 10% they save in the same thing that the big guys do:  Stocks or Mutual Funds.     And there is where I have questions.  I have been invested in Banking/Insurance related mutual fund since 2008 (FSPCX) when the gub'ment guaranteed the survival of banking and insurance, and also now invested in health care mutual funds for the past couple years (FSMEX) as it seems that Obamacare will do one thing:  Greatly increase the amount of money rolling into the healthcare field.   Anyone interested in talking stocks/mutual funds and what they personally would do to "invest as the top 1% do" and try to improve in that manner?

                              The Plan '15 edition (big parts)→  /// April '15:  Hampton, VA 24 Hour Run for Cancer  (Goal: >80.1+Miles)  ///   Run streak, at least a mile every single day for 365.  ∞


                              Feeling the growl again

                                 

                                   I'll stick by my personal premise:  The best most "Average guys" can do safely is live on 90% or less of his income, then invest the other 10% they save in the same thing that the big guys do:  Stocks or Mutual Funds.     And there is where I have questions.  I have been invested in Banking/Insurance related mutual fund since 2008 (FSPCX) when the gub'ment guaranteed the survival of banking and insurance, and also now invested in health care mutual funds for the past couple years (FSMEX) as it seems that Obamacare will do one thing:  Greatly increase the amount of money rolling into the healthcare field.   Anyone interested in talking stocks/mutual funds and what they personally would do to "invest as the top 1% do" and try to improve in that manner?

                                 

                                You believe one of two things:

                                a)  You are smarter about the future growth potential of stocks than the average of the market.  This would lead you to invest in specific sectors or specific stocks.

                                b)  You are only as smart of dumber than the average of the market.  This would lead you to invest in broadly diversified mutual funds covering multiple industries, essentially tracking the Dow/Nasdaq.

                                 

                                I've owned various mutual funds over the years, all run my real pros, and I can't say any of them seemed to guess the future any better than others in the long run.  This would argue for, as much data shows, maintaining a highly diversified portfolio.

                                 

                                As someone working in the healthcare field, while Obamacare may drive money into some parts of the industry, it will put real pressures on others.  The entire system is also unsustainable in the long term.  So an investment strategy in "healthcare" would need to be fairly precise in investments to be successful, and in the long term (10+ years) I would not be surprised if pressures to curtail spending and reduce costs pull the whole sector behind the market.

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand