Forums >General Running>long run by time or pace/distance?
Still kicking
Over many years and many marathons, I've noticed a trend. Maybe just the experience of one, but it's been very consistent. I like to do a relaxed full 26 mile long run 4 weeks before my marathons. My races have been consistently 20 minutes faster than my long run. My last 4 marathons have been within a minute of this. Based only on my own experience, if you can do a 26 mile long run in 4:20, you may break 4 hours in your race.
I'm also on Athlinks and Strava
You keep saying that, but you don't say how many miles per week you're getting in. Why not? How many miles are you getting in and how strong is your "base"? It's all relevant if you want the best advice possible.
You keep saying that, but you don't say how many miles per week you're getting in. Why not?
How many miles are you getting in and how strong is your "base"?
It's all relevant if you want the best advice possible.
+1
I'm 4 weeks into 16 week program and just did a 30 mile week. Base training ranged from 20-25 MPW give or take depending on cross training, which was a lot of paddling and trx.
Sorry about the inappropriate insult. That came from Asking a question within certain parameters and being told to go outside those parameters. 3-4 days Is what I've got. I also have a physical limitation that will rear it's ugly head and sideline me all together if I do more.
The comment about starting the long run slow so I do t have to slow in the later miles is solid advice, as is the marathon pace training. It's a hilly course so I must add some of those in.
#RunEveryDay
Do you use your log on RA? If you do, try opening it to public access. People can't help if they only see part of the picture. At 30mph, how much is your long run? Is it 1/3 or 1/2 of your total?
Half Fanatic #9292.
Game Admin for RA Running Game 2023.
Feeling the growl again
Sorry about the inappropriate insult. That came from Asking a question within certain parameters and being told to go outside those parameters.
Actually, you were not told that. Look again. You were asked to provide more context to your situation in hopes of understanding in order to better tailor feedback and find something that could be changed to give you a shot.. Because based on what you had described, absolutely nothing you changed up on your long run would give you a realistic shot at the goal you set.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
How long did you spend on your base period?
(i.e., how many weeks had you been averaging 20-25 mpw?)
Just going out on a limb, but I think you may be biting off more than you can chew.
Oh, and stop it with the 3-4 day stuff. You are no busier or more important than anyone else posting here.
You are choosing to limit your running to 3-4 days per week. There's nothing wrong with that, but at least admit that's YOUR choice.
We all have the same 168 hours in the week. You can spend it however you'd like.
Trail and Ultra Running User Group
I can't give advice. Not enough experience to have credibility. I personnally have never run a marathon and am logging 45-55 miles weeks presently preparing for a half. I would not feel prepared for a full with what you are running. But, as stated up front, I am not trying to give any advice here.
My question is on the title of the thread. I actually run by pace/time. Technically it is the same as pace/distance, as one will invariably lead to the other, but I THINK in time and pace for my long run.
I know I'm a bit off subject. Feel free to ignore this post. It just caught my eye that the tilte asks how to train for a long run, but doesn't mention the way I approach the long run.
How did you pick out that marathon goal pace of 9:00 min/mile?
If you can only run 3 days a week run a 1/2. That is what the 1/2 is for.
Stroller
Here's the solution to your problem about not having time. We have 3 kids, and this is the how you come up with the time you need to start running 6 days a week! Otherwise, you just adjust the goals as others have mentioned.
Nice thoughtful post and good advice.
If it does, I've never seen one. FWIW, so you don't think I'm just a "string bean running geek" or whatever, I cross train (weights of about an hour) three times a week and usually run seven times a week. I also rock climb (which I don't log), swim (which I usually forget to log), and some other cross training now and then. If I split up my miles the way you are doing, OP, I would not be able to maintain for long. For me, if I do weights on the days I'm supposed to be recovering from hard runs, I have to be really, really careful not to start breaking down. I say this not knowing what your routines look like, since your log is not public. Honestly, if you're not going to run more (running when it's hot out and you're bushed after work is awesome training, though), I would make the tempo/intervals easier (think of the goal pace as the fastest you are allowed to run, instead) to let yourself have a shot at hitting your goal on the long runs. Further, on the long runs, I would start intentionally slow--as slow as needed so as not to have to slow down further during the run itself. From what I understand of FIRST, it really only works well if your cross train aerobically on the non-run days (e.g., swimming and cycling). Weights for strength is great (as I obviously use them and think so), and they are good for practice running on tired legs (I'm training for a 12 hour race at the moment), but they do little to improve your aerobic fitness. Paddling is good aerobic work, but once a week isn't the same as what a triathlete does--which is really what FIRST has in mind. Finally, you might get more, constructive responses if you don't respond to people with such venom. We all have lives, other hobbies, jobs, and families. We run what we run because we want to. Demeaning the forum and claiming runners are not fit reeks of insecurity and bile. While I do not know that to be the case, it is the impression people get when they are insulted. Take that for what it's worth.
If it does, I've never seen one.
FWIW, so you don't think I'm just a "string bean running geek" or whatever, I cross train (weights of about an hour) three times a week and usually run seven times a week. I also rock climb (which I don't log), swim (which I usually forget to log), and some other cross training now and then. If I split up my miles the way you are doing, OP, I would not be able to maintain for long.
For me, if I do weights on the days I'm supposed to be recovering from hard runs, I have to be really, really careful not to start breaking down. I say this not knowing what your routines look like, since your log is not public.
Honestly, if you're not going to run more (running when it's hot out and you're bushed after work is awesome training, though), I would make the tempo/intervals easier (think of the goal pace as the fastest you are allowed to run, instead) to let yourself have a shot at hitting your goal on the long runs. Further, on the long runs, I would start intentionally slow--as slow as needed so as not to have to slow down further during the run itself.
From what I understand of FIRST, it really only works well if your cross train aerobically on the non-run days (e.g., swimming and cycling). Weights for strength is great (as I obviously use them and think so), and they are good for practice running on tired legs (I'm training for a 12 hour race at the moment), but they do little to improve your aerobic fitness. Paddling is good aerobic work, but once a week isn't the same as what a triathlete does--which is really what FIRST has in mind.
Finally, you might get more, constructive responses if you don't respond to people with such venom. We all have lives, other hobbies, jobs, and families. We run what we run because we want to. Demeaning the forum and claiming runners are not fit reeks of insecurity and bile. While I do not know that to be the case, it is the impression people get when they are insulted. Take that for what it's worth.
I ran two 1/2 marathons at just over 2 hrs on less than 25 MPW, for one I topped out at 15 due to illness. I just missed 2 hours for both due to a cramp. So low mileage/ high Intensity can be done. I arrived at my goal pace by the mileage calculators from my 5k, 10k and 1/2 marathon pace. All say I should be able to do about a 3:50 or less marathon.
Base period was 6 months, Long run is currently between 30 and 50% of total miles.
On tired legs I just can't maintain 40 seconds slower than goal race pace without going into heart rate zone 4 in the later miles so I'm running a couple of miles farther than designated that day, but at about a minute slower than race pace. I was just wondering if anyone else thought that this was acceptable.
I arrived at my goal pace by the mileage calculators from my 5k, 10k and 1/2 marathon pace. All say I should be able to do about a 3:50 or less marathon.
1) Such calculators assume you are scaling your training appropriately for longer distances. So when you use a 10K or HM time as input, the resulting prediction is only valid if you increase your training load appropriately.
2) The shorter the race, the less predictive value it has. If you have two HM times, they will be more accurate than 5K or 10K extrapolations....which are pretty darn suspect, and even moreso for a low-mileage runner.
You have not broken 2 hours for a HM, but are trying to run a 4 hour marathon. There is no running calculator in existence which would predict a marathon in 2X your HM time. McMillan gives 4:12, and this would be an aggressive goal with your current training. The cramping issues will only get worse at longer distances if you have proven prone to them.
If you are looking for short cuts and to cut some corners in your marathon training you should up your pickle juice intake three fold. That will hold the cramps at bay.
I ran two 1/2 marathons at just over 2 hrs on less than 25 MPW, for one I topped out at 15 due to illness. I just missed 2 hours for both due to a cramp. So low mileage/ high Intensity can be done. I arrived at my goal pace by the mileage calculators from my 5k, 10k and 1/2 marathon pace. All say I should be able to do about a 3:50 or less marathon. Base period was 6 months, Long run is currently between 30 and 50% of total miles. On tired legs I just can't maintain 40 seconds slower than goal race pace without going into heart rate zone 4 in the later miles so I'm running a couple of miles farther than designated that day, but at about a minute slower than race pace. I was just wondering if anyone else thought that this was acceptable.
+1 to everything spaniel said.
You simply don't have the endurance to do what you're trying to do. There is no other explanation.
You're trying to take a short cut and short cuts never work (other than the pickle juice trick that X suggested, but even that is a controversial way to do it, and has been outlawed by UCI)
Stand up paddleboarding is a terrible way to build endurance for running. You may enjoy and that's great, but stop thinking it benefits you're running. It doesn't.
If you want to get good at running (which you've said is a distant 4th on your importance chart) you have to run more. From your previous comments it doesn't sound like you want to be good at running. Adjust your goals, aim for a slower time and be happy with it.
No one is arguing that low mileage/ high intensity can't be done, what they're saying is it is not working for you (at least not at those paces)
Aim for a sub 4:30-4:40 finish.