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5k PR... lots of easy miles paid off (Read 1919 times)


I've got a fever...

    I bet you could run 16:23 again without any real speedwork, but it would take a sustained period of mileage you've not come close to in years, if ever. I bet I could too but I haven't figured out how to fit that much running into my regular life over the long haul yet--I may never.
    That's the real key. Like everyone else, it's hard to find the time to run as much as I need/like to. I'm in the middle of moving, which swallows my weekend whole for the most part, so I'm just squeezing whatever miles I can at lunch time at work; not very much time to do more than squeeze in a 3 or 4-miler. So lately, I've been making some of those into tempo runs or intervals just to feel good and feel like I'm getting more out of it. My peak volume was about 50~60 miles per week, with two hard sessions per week and a long run of 12~18 miles. Like Mikey, I haven't figured out how to squeeze that in around real life. Good info everyone.

    On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

    TexasRunner


      Great job to the original poster. My thought after 30 years of running/racing is that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I have also tried the slower miles bit, and it resulted in my best 5K in recent years. However, I found that I had to run a bunch for it to work. When I did try to run fast, it hurt. I also referee soccer games, and I found that I was starting to have trouble keeping up with the players. I've changed to a version of the FIRST program and have seen my 5K go from 21:43 to 20:09 in the last couple of months. I'm also easily keeping up with the soccer players. Best of all, I can fit into my 32-inch pants again. Smile However, I think the premise is good because it does force you to slow down and recover. A review of the log does show some interval sessions and tempo runs. Were there really that many off-days in your program?


      I've got a fever...

        A review of the log does show some interval sessions and tempo runs. Were there really that many off-days in your program?
        TexasRunner, If your question was for me, the answer is yes. I squeeze most of my runs into lunch-time at work, and if work gets too busy, the runs get squeezed out. That's where the gaps come from. I've recently been doing some quality work (tempo and intervals) because a) I may run a race in December and I want to assess my fitness and b) I like tempo and especially interval training. It's hard, and the dry heaves suck (I haven't gotten there yet, but I'm sure I will), but it's fun and adds some much needed variety to my training. Plus, it's a lot easier to run hard in colder weather than warmer weather, at least for me. I do realize that I need to do more base-building for spring racing season and that trying to do intervals every week between now and April would actually be counterproductive, but I figure a little here and there won't hurt too much. BTW, sorry for hi-jacking your thread Ed4, and I will say again congrats on your PR!

        On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

        Ed4


        Barefoot and happy

          And I'm willing to bet that not all of Ed's miles were always "easy".
          There were only four days in the last 5 months that I didn't run easy. Those were each in the few weeks leading up to the race, so that I could figure out my pacing. Every other run was "easy", and I know it really was because I used a heart rate monitor every day. I aimed for a 145 average heart rate, with HR alarms if I exceeded 148 or dropped below 142. Even in cases of a sudden climb, I never peaked higher than about 155, and this was very rare and short duration. This is all given a MAF of 154 at age 26. My measured maximum is about 194. So I can confidently say that I was definitely running easy at least 95% of the time.
          Curious about running barefoot? Visit the new barefoot running group.
          Ed4


          Barefoot and happy

            BTW, sorry for hi-jacking your thread Ed4, and I will say again congrats on your PR!
            No problem, this is exactly the kind of discussion I wanted to trigger. And thanks. Smile
            Curious about running barefoot? Visit the new barefoot running group.
            TexasRunner


              TexasRunner, If your question was for me, the answer is yes. I squeeze most of my runs into lunch-time at work, and if work gets too busy, the runs get squeezed out. That's where the gaps come from.
              Actually, the question was for Ed4, but I see that your log is similar with several off-days. He had several off-days, but I also notice some faster stuff in there. I have to do all my running and x-training at 5 a.m., or it probably won't happen. The alarm goes off at 4:50 a.m., I lay in bed for the next 5 minutes thinking of excuses to stay there, and I finally realize that I'll be ticked at myself for missing a workout. That gets me out of bed by 4:55. I'd like to get back around 17, but I've got to work myself back to under 20 first.
              Scout7


              CPT Curmudgeon

                Here's my biggest issue with Maffetone: the formula. The training principles are sound, I have no issue with most miles being at an easier pace. But I disagree with using a formula to determine what your HR zones should be. I would prefer to see a field test protocol. I am curious as to what is defined as "easy", too.
                  Good work, Ed4. You've definitely increased your volume a bunch over the last 5 months without getting burned out or injured. The key to running success. Don't waste those years in your late 20's; it's a magical time for distance running.
                    Also I don't think the message here is that you need to do no fast running, but rather that you need to do lots of easy running. If you look at the logs of just about any successful distance runner you'll see the same thing. Lots of running, with 80-90% of their weekly mileage at a relaxed and easy pace.
                    This paragraph says it for me. I don't believe that the LRH programs are the way to go if you want to reach your fullest potential. However, I'm a big believer in running the majority of miles "at a relaxed and easy pace". What helped me to what was perhaps my best year ever in 2007 was to go easy on my easy days and run 2 quality workouts each week, usually at no faster than current 10k pace, and often more in the HM/Marathon pace range. So many runners will set a goal that is much faster than what they can currently run and start doing their workouts at that pace. It's counterintuitive that you can reach your goals by doing workouts based on your current fitness level rather than goal pace, but you can. It's more aggressive that Mafetone (LHR) training, but controlled enough to lessen the likelihood of injury. It has enabled me to avoid any injuries for almost 2 years. Anyway, I am in agreement with the spirit of the orginal post which is that miles really make a difference and to "train, don't strain". Congrulations, Ed4, on the progress you've made.
                    Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
                      I agree that most of your runs need to be at "easy" pace. But I don't see how you can run 5K's at sub 7:00 minute pace unless you've run at least and occassional mile at 7 minute pace or you're certainly risking injury. I don't keep heart rate, good or bad I run by feel, I try to run one tempo with a hard mile in the middle and one long run per week. The goal of every run is to feel good about it.

                      Courage ! Do one brave thing today...then run like hell.

                        First of all, congrats to Ed4 on the PR! I was wondering if anyone has seen a rough calculation of what one could expect to do from MAF pace to race pace. I've not done an all out anything for a few years. My recent workouts have been at 9:20 per mile for 6 miles at 140 bpm, but a sub 20 minute 5K would be what I was doing in high school 20 years ago. It just doesn't seem possible! Thanks for any thoughts, and Merry Christmas everyone!
                        2008 Goals: 1200 miles injury free; sub 4:00 marathon

                        "Come what may, I want to run."
                        2 Samuel 18:23


                        I've got a fever...

                          I was wondering if anyone has seen a rough calculation of what one could expect to do from MAF pace to race pace. I've not done an all out anything for a few years. My recent workouts have been at 9:20 per mile for 6 miles at 140 bpm, but a sub 20 minute 5K would be what I was doing in high school 20 years ago. It just doesn't seem possible!
                          From this article:
                          Another important aspect of the heart monitor and MAF test is that the test is predictive of performance. A direct relationship exists between your aerobic pace and your race effort. Data gathered on hundreds of runners over several years made it evident that the pace a runner could perform at aerobic maximum pace was positively correlated with race pace. The chart below, based on actual data, illustrates the relationship between MAF and 5K race performance. MAF 5K 5K min/mile race pace time 10:00 7:30 23:18 9:00 7:00 21:45 8:30 6:45 20:58 8:00 6:30 20:12 7:30 6:00 18:38 7:00 5:30 17:05 6:30 5:15 16:19 6:00 5:00 15:32 5:45 4:45 14:45 5:30 4:30 13:59 5:15 4:20 13:28 5:00 4:15 13:12
                          What's not clear here is the role of speedwork. This is a correlation between MAF pace and race pace from hundreds of actual runners, but there's no mention of what kind of training they were doing. And contrary to popular belief, MAF doesn't mean always run slow, it means build your aerobic base at an easy pace, such that you don't get injured and can therefore run more miles. Speedwork is still part of the deal if you want to reach your true potential, and I'm sure that most of the runners from the data set that produced the above table did some speed in addition to their easy aoerbic base miles. From Scout7
                          Here's my biggest issue with Maffetone: the formula. The training principles are sound, I have no issue with most miles being at an easier pace. But I disagree with using a formula to determine what your HR zones should be. I would prefer to see a field test protocol..
                          I'm right with you there. 180-age(┬▒some adjustments) is nothing more than a rough guess the same way that 220-age is for maxHR. And since 220-age isn't even close for me, I don't expect the MAF formula to be, either.

                          On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.


                          Slow-smooth-fast

                            First of all, congrats to Ed4 on the PR! I was wondering if anyone has seen a rough calculation of what one could expect to do from MAF pace to race pace. I've not done an all out anything for a few years. My recent workouts have been at 9:20 per mile for 6 miles at 140 bpm, but a sub 20 minute 5K would be what I was doing in high school 20 years ago. It just doesn't seem possible! Thanks for any thoughts, and Merry Christmas everyone!
                            Before I did MAF training my pb for 5k was 21:13 and 42:24 for a 10k. I am sticking with the MAF until I stop seeing results. Here are my findings after 5 weeks.

                            "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

                              ummm, what's MAF pace? I don't know if this is the appropriate thread for this, but I've heard lots about the LHR training, but it just doesn't make sense to me (I just joined the group so maybe I'll pick up some pointers and philosophy on this training method). How do you decide what "relaxed" pace is? I've heard 2:00 min/mile slower, or even HR's that are looooow looooow. and, of course, congrats Ed on an outstanding performance!
                              2008 Goals: 10k < 44,="" hm="" />< 1:40, learn to use my garmin 1:40,="" learn="" to="" use="" my=""></ 1:40, learn to use my garmin>
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