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race week workouts. (Read 1309 times)

    First of all, if your worst case scinario was 17:10 and you did 17:17, that ain't too bad.  That said, however, I certainly would have NEVER done a heavy workout like 4 X 800m 3 days before the target race.  That's three 800m too many for my liking.  That's a workout to build-up; not to prep for a race.  In other words, by doing that, you just brought down the target race to yet another workout.

     

    Just in case if you didn't know, I do Lydiard-based training.  We take training cycle into phases; you build-up aerobic base first, then build strength (in your legs, that is), then speed, and then put them all together and finally taper.  When I said that it looks like you've done your homework, that you'd do well; well, I was being nice.  I would never EVER say anything negative about someone's training the week before the race--it won't do anything but affect their head negatively.  So when I said that, and you actually have done most of the components, I thought you could do best that you could do.  But, as far as I'm concerned, you just completely ruined your chance by doing that 4 X 800m workout 3 days before the race.  That was probably a pretty good workout to you, was it not?  If it was, THAT was your race.  In other words, it is a typical case of "leaving your best race in training."  It's pretty much the same as doing a 22-mile at marathon pace 2 weeks before the marathon. 

     

    Taking a glance at your training log, I see a lot of aimless workouts thrown together.  First of all, I would not do too many weight days once you get near racing season--I'm not even sure if it's a racing season to you now but assuming it is because you are getting some target races one after the other.  To me, weight training, assuming this is strength building, is, as the name suggest, build-up period.  That should have been done months before.  You do seem to have done some distance work, though not enough for my liking, and have done some hills and intervals; but I don't necessarily see any logical pattern in it.  Training for distance running can NOT be  like, oh, I want to race a 5k well in 3 months so I'd start running 1 mile as fast as I can this month, then do 2 miles next month and then 3 miles the next right before the race.  It actually sounds logical but it is completely opposite.  My partner just sent me an on-line training program provided by a very notable group but, to me, the program itself looks like a total crap.  It was a 24-week program to run a marathon (it says, "to run a marathon like Kenyans--how to break 4 hours" and that alone made me laugh!!).  It'll get you to race a 5k in the first month, then 10k, then a half marathon and finally a marathon.  It actually sounds logical but we actually go the opposite.  In fact, when I met with legendary Japanese marathon coach, Kiyoshi Nakamura, he did put it well; "We do marathon first and then come down..."  This means you build stamina first; then sharpen before the race.  It seems to me, your training was getting harder and harder as you near the "racing season", is that the way you put together the program?  In a way, maybe.  But you should really save up for races instead of making sure you can run hard in workouts. 

     

    So, in short, what would I have done it differently?  I would take a block of weeks a few months before the "racing season" to build up stamina first; then do hills or some sort of exercises to build up leg strengths; then do some sharpening hopefully about a month before the races.  Final few weeks should be spent some coordination work--you said this was your target race so it's too late but now you found out that you died in the second half.  Well, you'll need to evaluate why you did it (in my opinon, you were too tired from Thursday's workout) and need to adjust next week's workouts accordingly.  It's either you were too tired (lighen up your training load!!) or you still lacked stamina.  If latter, it's still not too late; you probably need a longish jog or steady state type of workout earlier this week (so you won't be too tired for the weekend race).  No point in keep doing heavy load of intervals--that should have been done a month ago.  Now THAT is too late to do now.  Mark Wetmore covered it so nicely in our clinic in Boulder a month ago.  He asked Lydiard, during a heavy racing season in the US school system, how can we fit in long run and intervals and hills?  He said remove intervals.  This is because what you want to achieve by doing intervals you will achieve by racing anyways.  So, with that, you just broke the number one rule for the racing season's no-no; you tried to fit in heavy intervals and racing together.  I say 17:17 ain't too bad.  But if you felt that was no good, this is most probably why.

     

    I know Tchuck likes to do a little bit heavier workioad leading up to the race than I would.  I probably would do about 1/3 of what he suggests.  But if he gets the results he wants doing the way he does, all the power to him.  I know he's from Tinman's school and Tinman doesn't like to lighten up training too much before the races.  I know he (Tinman) likes to use John Walker's example to justify that but Walker was a Lydiard school and I know how that works.  And I would still say, in the end, less-trained runner with fresh legs would always perform better than well-trained runner with heavy legs.  I could be wrong with this one--not that I took some statistics on this.  If you want to find out, you can do what I would suggest--instead of 4 X 800m, do somethingn like 3 X 200m on Wednesday and just jog for 30~45 minutes on Thursday, Friday and Saturday and see how you'd perform next week. ;o)


    Slow-smooth-fast

      This is interesting. I have found that intervals in race week gives me confidence for the race, but I do find them tough and wonder if it will do anything for my race. I am in no man's land at the moment as I have a race on sun and all my running over the last 3 months has been endurance with a few fartleks thrown in so am unsure whether or not to do the 4x800 m tommorow. For sure it will give me confidence but don't want to tire me legs. Any thoughts?

      "I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009


      H RIMZ

        "I'd do 800m STRONGLY but EVENLY in about, oh, 2:28--NO FASTER!!--on Thursday." You turned the tables on me man lol

         

        mile- 4:37

        2 mile 10:05 (Training run)

        5 km-16:38 -5:22 11/15/2009


        H RIMZ

          But that thursday workout wasnt that hard it was pretty refreshing

           

          mile- 4:37

          2 mile 10:05 (Training run)

          5 km-16:38 -5:22 11/15/2009

            "I'd do 800m STRONGLY but EVENLY in about, oh, 2:28--NO FASTER!!--on Thursday." You turned the tables on me man lol

            ????  I said to run 800m; not 4X800. 

              But that thursday workout wasnt that hard it was pretty refreshing

              Exactly!!  That should have been your race. 

                Exactly!!  That should have been your race. 

                 

                Well said, Nobby.

                 

                One of the most difficult things as a distance runner is knowing when to train hard, and when to back off. Too often we do workouts for our minds, but ignore their effect on our bodies. Try to avoid the "confidence building" workouts; build confidence by racing fast!

                 

                (I know this, unfortunately, from my own experience. The primary reason runners need a coach is to tell them when to back off.)

                  This is interesting. I have found that intervals in race week gives me confidence for the race, but I do find them tough and wonder if it will do anything for my race. I am in no man's land at the moment as I have a race on sun and all my running over the last 3 months has been endurance with a few fartleks thrown in so am unsure whether or not to do the 4x800 m tommorow. For sure it will give me confidence but don't want to tire me legs. Any thoughts?

                  So here it is, this is exactly what I meant:

                  It seems to me...you like to throw a bunch of questions, collect a whole bunch of answers from various people, but you go ahead and do what you want anyways.  Or you may take a whole bunch of answers and come up with something totally illogical.    

                  I don't expect anybody to do as I tell them.  But if someone asks me what he/she should do on the week before the race, I'd tell them to take it easy and not do much; you don't need to build confidence at this point, you need FAITH in your program.  A workout like 4 X 800 is the VERY thing I would stay away from and would suggest anybody to stay away from.  If you insist you do that kind of workout, that's fine with me.  But, like I said on the other thread, I would not waste my time trying to help you when I KNOW that you wouldn't listen anyway.

                     

                    ......(I know this, unfortunately, from my own experience. The primary reason runners need a coach is to tell them when to back off.).....

                     

                    +1

                    Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!


                    H RIMZ

                      Somehow when i saw 800m i thought 4x800...i screwed the pooch there. But ill keep on keepin on. im now starting to train for Manchester 4.7 on thanksgiving. I was'nt voluntarily asking for advice and blowing it off, I just have ADD apparently.  Has any one heard of this 8k training plan?

                      http://www.halhigdon.com/8K/8kadvsch.htm

                       

                      mile- 4:37

                      2 mile 10:05 (Training run)

                      5 km-16:38 -5:22 11/15/2009

                        I don't care for that 8K training plan. Two quality/speed days back to back are not recommended by me. You need recovery between. I also prefer 10K paced reps (like 6 X 1K) followed by some 200s fast (800m pace) like 4-6 X 200m on interval days rather than 400s. In an 8 week program, you can mix in 3-5K paced reps (6 X 800m) every other week followed by the fast 200s.  This multipace approach is more effective. BUT that is just my opinion. You also have to look at your whole approach year round. Is this a goal race or a fun race on your way to a bigger goal.

                        Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!


                        H RIMZ

                          Its a goal race for sure. isn't that mileage low for 8k any way?

                           

                          mile- 4:37

                          2 mile 10:05 (Training run)

                          5 km-16:38 -5:22 11/15/2009

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