So want to do 5k in 25 minutes (Read 691 times)

minhg


    sorry, i know that everyone is different but i don't think this is realistic.  i've been training for halfs for the last year and run ~35 miles a week.  when i started i was around 35 minutes for a 5K at a comfortable pace.  i'd estimate my comfortable pace right now is around 27 minutes for a 5K.  i just ran a 5K PR of 21:30 a few weeks ago on a very fast course (net negative elevation).

     

    you may not want to hear this but you're setting yourself up for disappointment by setting such aggressive goals before you build your fitness.  to go from 36 minutes, even 33 minutes to 25 minutes is a big jump--nearly 25%.

     

    to put it another way,

    --a 35 minute 5K would put you near the back of most races--around the bottom 30%

    --a sub 25 minute 5K would put you in the top 30%

    jumping that much in a short period of time is very difficult if you are not already in good shape.

     

    stop focusing on a time goal and just work on your mileage for a few months, as your fitness improves you'll gain speed.  there is no secret recipe to short-cut to a sub-25 5K.  in my opinion i don't think you really need to do anything special like intervals etc to achieve this, just get stronger by slow, steady workouts.

     

    if you hurt yourself while running, ask yourself if you are doing/running too much.  your body is trying to tell you something, make sure to listen.


    Half Fanatic #846

       

      Ya but cant put a running plan into action till my legs heal, in mean time I'm trying to do same thing....building mileage with indoor bikes, might swim too. going to leave it one week and two days before I try to run again, i.e. a week on monday. Good news is my weight lifting has improved as I read in a runners magazine strong arms help you to run better, I am now up to 30kg x3sets, x5 reps on lat pull down which is my best machine. Also discovered the ab and side ab weighted machines at the gym today which is good too so will work a lot on core work whilst my legs are unable to run, did new pbs for all the weight machines today, pecs up by 2.5 kg, chest press dito, shoulder press up by 5kg to 20kg 3sets of 5, seated row up to the same as the shoulder press a 5kg improvement, if you count each rep as being additive then I improved by hundreds of kilos today! (5kg per rep on some machines,x3x5, 7.5 on the lat pull downx3x5, 2.5x3x5 for chest pec and press) I am 5ft 3.3 161 cm 5.3 foot in google is not 5.3 ft flat btw as their are 12 not 10 inches in a foot.

       

      I think when I have slowed down I will be running easy 3 mile pace at around 36-37 minutes will try to....slowly increase easy mile pace each day being a few seconds faster whilst still taking it easy. I am going to go for a sports massage next week and see a sports physio at Christmas time.

       

      All this seems like a bad idea to me. I have never seen a training plan of any kind that recommends this.

      "I don't always roll a joint, but when I do, it's usually my ankle" - unk.         "Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a bit tired of your shirt".                  I ran half my last race on my left foot!                                  

      TheMysteryOne


        Hey guys took a break from running for 2 weeks and a near total break from the gym for 1 week to allow my legs to attempt to heal, though I did swim last week, haven't added that to my log but did add a few things I had left out to my log. Today went to gym for first time in a while, as opposed to the pool, managed to run a mile and set a new pb by accident really as I was intending to just ease myself back into this via running at 4.5-5mph for 1 mile but my legs loosened up continually and I slowly increased pace and bar initial breathlessness I was actually much fitter and less breathless later on into the workout and managed to run continually instead of walking, if I went slightly to fast I could just jog at 4.5-5mph and eventually 6mph instead of having to walk for recovery, this pb was 17 second faster than my 10.35 for a mile previous pb 10.18 and it was more of a moderate hard work out than flat out. Then in the warm down I hurt the leg again very slightly as I wondered how fast I could sprint, managed to get up to 10.4 mph which is 1.1mph faster than what I was managing before, and I was actually managing to go at 9.5mph without being breathless after about 15 and a bit seconds at that pace, when my leg is healed fully will be interesting how far I can actually run at that pace once I am warmed up it seems. Also swam today 30 lengths in 33 minutes, did the ab machine and some weights machine again improving on my Lat pull down machine another big jump of 10kg from 30 to 40kg, (5 reps 3 sets)  my bicept curls etc are only getting stronger very slowly though so I am in no danger of becoming too bulky up top, just trying to build good strength as I hear strong arms and chest and core help runners.


        Half Fanatic #846

          Hey guys took a break from running for 2 weeks and a near total break from the gym for 1 week to allow my legs to attempt to heal, though I did swim last week, haven't added that to my log but did add a few things I had left out to my log. Today went to gym for first time in a while, as opposed to the pool, managed to run a mile and set a new pb by accident really as I was intending to just ease myself back into this via running at 4.5-5mph for 1 mile but my legs loosened up continually and I slowly increased pace and bar initial breathlessness I was actually much fitter and less breathless later on into the workout and managed to run continually instead of walking, if I went slightly to fast I could just jog at 4.5-5mph and eventually 6mph instead of having to walk for recovery, this pb was 17 second faster than my 10.35 for a mile previous pb 10.18 and it was more of a moderate hard work out than flat out. Then in the warm  down I hurt the leg again very slightly as I wondered how fast I could sprint, managed to get up to 10.4 mph which is 1.1mph faster than what I was managing before, and I was actually managing to go at 9.5mph without being breathless after about 15 and a bit seconds at that pace, when my leg is healed fully will be interesting how far I can actually run at that pace once I am warmed up it seems. Also swam today 30 lengths in 33 minutes, did the ab machine and some weights machine again improving on my Lat pull down machine another big jump of 10kg from 30 to 40kg, (5 reps 3 sets)  my bicept curls etc are only getting stronger very slowly though so I am in no danger of becoming too bulky up top, just trying to build good strength as I hear strong arms and chest and core help runners.

           

          Sorry, but if your goal is to be constantly frustrated by injury ... well, I think you're definitely on the right track!  Just make certain to ignore advice, always max out/overdo it, stay focused on PRs for most workouts, run fast most of the time and never run easy - you know, all the things you've been doing to get to where you are now, which is re-injured. BTW, how do you hurt yourself in a cool down?

           

          Or, you could channel your obvious energy and motivation into very positive assets by following a good plan, being more patient, and you'll get good results. And you could start healing and then running successfully by learning to generally trust advice from those more experienced.

           

          I'm really hoping you learn to train effectively because I think all of us like to see people improve. In a few months, let us know you've got decent base mileage, haven't been out much or any due to injury, and that you've got that 5K PR - maybe even moving on to other distances and PRs.  I truly hope you succeed!

          "I don't always roll a joint, but when I do, it's usually my ankle" - unk.         "Frankly autocorrect, I'm getting a bit tired of your shirt".                  I ran half my last race on my left foot!                                  

          TheMysteryOne


             

            Sorry, but if your goal is to be constantly frustrated by injury ... well, I think you're definitely on the right track!  Just make certain to ignore advice, always max out/overdo it, stay focused on PRs for most workouts, run fast most of the time and never run easy - you know, all the things you've been doing to get to where you are now, which is re-injured. BTW, how do you hurt yourself in a cool down?

             

            Or, you could channel your obvious energy and motivation into very positive assets by following a good plan, being more patient, and you'll get good results. And you could start healing and then running successfully by learning to generally trust advice from those more experienced.

             

            I'm really hoping you learn to train effectively because I think all of us like to see people improve. In a few months, let us know you've got decent base mileage, haven't been out much or any due to injury, and that you've got that 5K PR - maybe even moving on to other distances and PRs.  I truly hope you succeed!

             

            "Hi thanks for the advice, well as I mention in my log I did a PR without pushing too hard really.

             

            I think tempo would describe it probably in terms of intensity "comfortably hard".

            Ya the warm down thing was sort of funny but when you have had a letter mentioning possible lung disease and you havent been able to run for a few weeks due to injury,  its not easy not to overdo it to see just where your health stands.

             

            Any way doctor says not much difference from last lung test and that he really wouldn't expect to see any more degradation in lung diffusion capacity (well apart from when my thyorid packs in but that will be reversible with thyroxin). The key thing is apparently I don't have terminal lung disease or degradative disease, at present but more tests in 12 weeks to be sure.  I needed to see my limits if you know what I mean so I reckon my long run pace (3mile-5mile at present) is around 5 to 5.5mph region.

             

            Going to do lots of swimming as it seems to be good for fitness whilst I let my leg heal up, I havent hurt my leg as bad as before but its probably another 10-13 days of non running required. . My strength is increasing and arms becoming more toned, I'll never be a tank really but then I wouldn't want to be to heavy up top, till I am older and well past my peak running days. Cant wait till my leg is fully healed and I can start increasing running milage and throw in the occasional sprint, think I might break 11 mph for first time in my life, 10.4 is fastest I ever ran on a treadmill and my leg wasnt even right. I wonder how good I could have been if I had had time to run before I had cancer....

             

            LOOK AT THIS REPLY this is the first one where folk seriously dont read..... Apparently I was focused on PRS from all the replies people posted most of the time at this stage I wasnt even pushing and getting PRS but folk said I was battering miles oh and they totally ignored the bold bit. Then you had the surreal non running dicks mentioning spider man who clearly read none of what I wrote. And then you have the jump in half way through a thread trolls ignore multiple times my reasons for having glass legs and the fact I was responding to trolls ignoring the bit where I say I wasnt pushing hard for prs or IGNORING the bit where 2 folk who dont even have a run log where trolling me when it was clear they had read nothing of what I wrote anywhere. Oh and the trolls saying 25 minutes in 2months is not possible.... THEY dont even know me... I think there is a good chance of getting 25 minutes in 2months if I GET My mileage up.... Given in 1km my pr is 5.37 (9.03 per mile pace.

            beat


            Break on through

              You should stop thinking about personal records for a while.  You can't cram for fitness. Maybe instead of trying for a 25 minute 5K in less than 2 months, set your sights further out, say 14 months...  Just run easy and consistently. Resist the urge to see how fast you can sprint, even if your legs are feeling good!

              "Not to touch the Earth, not to see the Sun, nothing left to do but run, run, run..."

              rmcj001


                You seem a bit obsessed with testing your limits.  That's fine, just understand it comes at a cost.  The most bang for the buck is going to be consistency.  Every time you do a stunt (and that's what you're doing) and you get injured, you're slowing your progress.  There are no shortcuts, no secrets to getting faster and better shape.  You need to put in the time, work and recovery.  Every workout has purpose, learn what the different types are and what purpose.  Find a plan, Higdon, McMillan, Hansens', etc, and follow it.  Resist the temptation to go all out in a sprint, or to test yourself - unless the plan calls for it.  When the majority of the advice you're getting is to slow down and take your time, you should probably listen and take it to heart.  Many of us have been where you are at and when we say consistency is the most important things, it is from experience.  It took several years for this advice to sink in to my skull, so you'll find out that it is true.  How quickly you'll be able to integrate it is another story.  Fitness should be a lifetime goal, which means you've got plenty of time.  It is tough to be patient, but it pays off in the long run (pun intended).


                Ray

                 


                an amazing likeness

                  You folks ought to do some google and find the messages where Nobby is telling Eddy that it's futile giving him advice as he (Eddy) is just going to go out and hammer miles and get hurt like he's done all the previous times...'cause this is reading just about exactly the same.

                  Acceptable at a dance, invaluable in a shipwreck.

                  LedLincoln


                  not bad for mile 25

                    You seem a bit obsessed with testing your limits.  That's fine, just understand it comes at a cost.

                     

                    Yes, testing your limits is one thing; extending your limits is quite another.

                    TheMysteryOne


                      You seem a bit obsessed with testing your limits.  That's fine, just understand it comes at a cost.  The most bang for the buck is going to be consistency.  Every time you do a stunt (and that's what you're doing) and you get injured, you're slowing your progress.  There are no shortcuts, no secrets to getting faster and better shape.  You need to put in the time, work and recovery.  Every workout has purpose, learn what the different types are and what purpose.  Find a plan, Higdon, McMillan, Hansens', etc, and follow it.  Resist the temptation to go all out in a sprint, or to test yourself - unless the plan calls for it.  When the majority of the advice you're getting is to slow down and take your time, you should probably listen and take it to heart.  Many of us have been where you are at and when we say consistency is the most important things, it is from experience.  It took several years for this advice to sink in to my skull, so you'll find out that it is true.  How quickly you'll be able to integrate it is another story.  Fitness should be a lifetime goal, which means you've got plenty of time.  It is tough to be patient, but it pays off in the long run (pun intended).

                       

                      Hmm I dont think any of the replies read what I wrote, I explained why I was testing my limits seems no one seen the bit I mentioned a letter from my doctor and I wanted to check I was Ok.....

                      TheMysteryOne


                        You should stop thinking about personal records for a while.  You can't cram for fitness. Maybe instead of trying for a 25 minute 5K in less than 2 months, set your sights further out, say 14 months...  Just run easy and consistently. Resist the urge to see how fast you can sprint, even if your legs are feeling good!

                         

                        Lol theirs no way it will take me 14 months to get down to 25 minutes. Just did 35.58 today at a pace between easy and tempo pace it felt like, was sort of fartlegish at times but a lot of consistent running during the 3 miles at speeds of 4.8-5.5mph (its hard not to sometimes increase the speed due to adrenaline and feeling like its "too" comfortable, did quite well to hit my delta but not in the manner I wanted to hit it) which felt quite comfortable, good news is I avoided making the quad strain and groin strains etc move from yellow zone back to red zone, this also just happened to be a PB but I wasn't going crazy trying to smash my record it just happened without having to do to much work, if I went flat out right now I guess would be 33 minutes for 3 miles,  but not trying that for a while till a few weeks when I am due to start doing some interval work. I have a 5 mile run in my plan on Thursday which began formally this week, before that I was just walking and swimming whilst I was injured to let the injury heal up a bit, the 5 mile will probably become a 1 mile walk followed by slow 4 mile run as I am keen to protect the leg whilst building fitness. I reckon in 5-6 weeks I should be seriously close to beating 30 minutes for 3 miles on the course I am going to enter (which is quite hilly, been walking a 2.6 mile local route up a hill to get the legs used to hills...) if I dont go crazy. Those sprints I mention will be during the interval training sessions which start in a few weeks.

                           

                          Lol theirs no way it will take me 14 months to get down to 25 minutes....

                           

                          TheMysteryOne


                             

                             

                            Well it wont  as I said I can do pbs without even going tempo pace at the moment let alone race pace, flat out for 3 miles right now would be around 33 minutes or just under that figure  and I still have a few pounds to lose to get down to 60kg so gains will be expanential. In 14 months I will be closer to 18 minutes for 5k than 25... 


                            not lazy, just tired

                              good luck.

                              Not if it makes sense.


                              No more marathons

                                 

                                Well it wont  as I said I can do pbs without even going tempo pace at the moment let alone race pace, flat out for 3 miles right now would be around 33 minutes or just under that figure  and I still have a few pounds to lose to get down to 60kg so gains will be expanential. In 14 months I will be closer to 18 minutes for 5k than 25... 

                                 

                                You might find it helpful to run more than 6 miles per month.

                                Boston 2014 - a 33 year journey

                                Lordy,  I hope there are tapes. 

                                He's a leaker!