Hansons vs. Pfitzinger (Read 2511 times)

    that would be nice if it were true.  many variables can throw off even the best training

     

    If I hit all the splits/paces/milage laid out in the Hanson's plan, I should be able to run my goal time, right?

    onemile


      Yeah that's the question that I want to know the answer to also.  I'm just about through week 6 of the Advanced plan and feeling pretty confident in my ability to hit the paces for all of the workouts for the rest of the plan, but much less confident in my ability to actually run that MP on race day.

       

      If I hit all the splits/paces/milage laid out in the Hanson's plan, I should be able to run my goal time, right?

        Onemile,

        That's my feeling exactly.  I have absolutely no doubt that I can hit every split throughout the however-many-week training (barring injury), but the longest I've ever run is 15 miles.  I think the longest run in the Hanson's method (advanced) is 16 miles and this isn't even at marathon pace.  According to the plan, my MP is 6:18 (2:45 marathon).  My long runs are at 6:52ish pace.  I'm only a few weeks in and I'm trusting in the whole cumulative fatigue idea.  My race is May 12th and I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes.

         

        I understand that unforseen cramps, GI issues, weather, etc can all factor in.  I was speaking specifically to completed plan=goal race result.

          i'm  not familar with the Hansen plan. I'm curious if there are there any workouts that have you do a long run (16 to 20) and you try to run the last 6 ot 10 miles at current marathon pace?

           

          Personally, I think tha't a great race simulation and test, especially if you do that workout as part of a normal training week (i.e. don't rest for that workout), and the effort for that 6 to 10 miles is not too strenuous from a breathing standpoint.

          onemile


            There are three mid-week runs of 10 at MP not including a wu/cd of 3-6 miles (total). If you do the longer wu/cd, those will total 16 miles with 10 at MP.   (The training plan is in my log if you want to take a peek)

             

            How do you determine if it is "too strenuous" from a breathing standpoint?

             

            i'm  not familar with the Hansen plan. I'm curious if there are there any workouts that have you do a long run (16 to 20) and you try to run the last 6 ot 10 miles at current marathon pace?

             

            Personally, I think tha't a great race simulation and test, especially if you do that workout as part of a normal training week (i.e. don't rest for that workout), and the effort for that 6 to 10 miles is not too strenuous from a breathing standpoint.

               

               How do you determine if it is "too strenuous" from a breathing standpoint?

               

               

              I think you need to ask yourself if this is a pace/effort that would be sustainable for a full marathon. In the race the pace will be easer at the start since you'll be tapered, but by mile 16+ it starts to catch up to you. Ask yourself if you could hold that pace for the whole marathon.

                This thread's been around a bit. Has anyone done both plans? I like mileage, and I own Pfitzinger's AM, but that's probably not reason alone to stay w/ it. Maybe I'll just incorporate more MP into my plan. I'm planning on

                largely doing Pfitzinger 70-85 (or close to it.) Already, I know I'll be doing track work Tuesdays and my long runs Saturdays. Honestly, when I read threshold, lactic, anaerobic, my eyes just move l-r & my mind wanders.


                HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                  ...Honestly, when I read threshold, lactic, anaerobic, my eyes just move l-r & my mind wanders.

                   

                  Same for me Smile

                  It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


                  The Irreverent Reverand

                    I'm only a few weeks in and I'm trusting in the whole cumulative fatigue idea.  My race is May 12th and I'll be sure to let everyone know how it goes.

                     

                    I understand that unforseen cramps, GI issues, weather, etc can all factor in.  I was speaking specifically to completed plan=goal race result.

                    I just started the Hansons plan, too. I'm using the advanced plan, albeit slower than most "advanced" runners, and am reserving the right to drop down to beginner. ;-)  I got through the book, even the thick kinesiological lingo, and it makes a lot of sense to me. Speed/Strength runs, Tempo runs (@MP), and paced easy and long runs ... the whole method looks good on paper. My marathon is in April. I'll let you all know how it works for me In reality.

                    Husband. Father of three. Lutheran pastor. National Guardsman. Runner. Political junkie. Baseball fan.

                     

                    Goals for 2014:

                    Sub-3:30 marathon; run for a year free from major injuries or interruptions

                    PRs: 3:27 marathon; 1:41 half; 45:07 10K; 23:26 5K; 6:02 mile; <12 parsecs Kessel Run


                    I'm back!

                      This thread's been around a bit. Has anyone done both plans? I like mileage, and I own Pfitzinger's AM, but that's probably not reason alone to stay w/ it. Maybe I'll just incorporate more MP into my plan. I'm planning on

                      largely doing Pfitzinger 70-85 (or close to it.) Already, I know I'll be doing track work Tuesdays and my long runs Saturdays. Honestly, when I read threshold, lactic, anaerobic, my eyes just move l-r & my mind wanders.

                       

                      I was meaning to go back and update this thread -- I wanted to pull some of the comment highlights out and add them as "answers" to some of the questions I originally raised.

                       

                      I have done Pfitzinger plans many (10+) times. I started on Hansons for Boston this year, kept with it for a while, but my hamstring injury eventually kept me from doing any of the speedwork, so I stopped. For the last couple of months before Boston I just ran whatever I felt like on any given day (mostly, lots of hilly trails). And somehow I still managed to PR at Boston, in my 87th marathon. Which just goes to show, I know absolutely nothing about how to train for marathons.


                      I'm back!

                        I am now nominally training for Napa on Pfitz 12/70-85. "Nominally", because the hamstring issue I mentioned got much much worse, and I'm only now slowly coming back from several months off. I probably will not catch up with the plan.

                         

                        But I went with Pfitz over Hansons this time based on one of the differences I highlighted in the original post: Hansons does VO2-max-type stuff early, LT-type stuff late; Pfitz does it the other way around. I still like the extra focus on MP that Hansons offers, plus the more uniform weekly structure, but my injury means I am going to have to backload the speed this time around. Next time, maybe I will put some effort into picking the features of each plan that appeal to me -- though I am going to have to resolve that MP vs. long run trade-off somehow.

                          I am now nominally training for Napa 

                           

                          WOOHOO

                          "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                            ... I know absolutely nothing about how to train for marathons.

                             

                            At just 18 marathons then, I'm even more a novice Wink Thanks for weighing in and thanks for the initial comparison. As I said, I may just try to work in more MP running into Pfitz. (I did like that my first run - yesterday's - on the 18 week plan was recovery.) I want to try to PR at Boston. Maybe I'll try Hansons for a fall marathon.

                             

                            Well, somehow I removed the whole quote box, but I'm talking to you, bhearn.

                            ernestob


                              I am now nominally training for Napa on Pfitz 12/70-85. "Nominally", because the hamstring issue I mentioned got much much worse, and I'm only now slowly coming back from several months off. I probably will not catch up with the plan.

                               

                              But I went with Pfitz over Hansons this time based on one of the differences I highlighted in the original post: Hansons does VO2-max-type stuff early, LT-type stuff late; Pfitz does it the other way around. I still like the extra focus on MP that Hansons offers, plus the more uniform weekly structure, but my injury means I am going to have to backload the speed this time around. Next time, maybe I will put some effort into picking the features of each plan that appeal to me -- though I am going to have to resolve that MP vs. long run trade-off somehow.

                               

                               

                              bhearn - great post. I am just coming back from 2 mos. off. Nov. - Jan. Ramping back up, hoping for a repeat just sub 3 at Boston with 12 weeks true training. Have been Pfitz for 7 marathons, but I feel like the early speed of Hansons might be an advantage in an abbreviated cycle. Thoughts?

                                I have done Pfitzinger plans many (10+) times. I started on Hansons for Boston this year, kept with it for a while, but my hamstring injury eventually kept me from doing any of the speedwork, so I stopped. For the last couple of months before Boston I just ran whatever I felt like on any given day (mostly, lots of hilly trails). And somehow I still managed to PR at Boston, in my 87th marathon. Which just goes to show, I know absolutely nothing about how to train for marathons.

                                 

                                I think what it goes to show is that marathon success has a lot less to do with which canned plan you choose for the last 12, 16 or 18 weeks before the race than with lifetime miles and experience.

                                Runners run.