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Completed half marathon, next one in 2 months - how to continue training (Read 189 times)

roadrunnermom


    Sorry, but I think it is hard to give anything more than general advice to someone without knowing more about their running history.

     

    It would be useful tyo know how many yeard\s you have been running?

    What your PR is for the half?

    How long have you been running 30 miles per week?

    What time do you run your 3 mile or 5k tempo?

    How fast do you run the 800m or 1600 intervals, what rest interval, how many?

     

    I  don't see any reason why your age should limit your training to 30 miles per week, though your injury history may be a factor, as you said. Also no reason why you cannot run a new PR.

    Just bmy opinions, of course!

    Fair enough. I apologize, I thought people would know my PR since I said my 1:59 was 5 minutes off my PR. You have a good point, more info might help, so here goes:

     

    I've been running about 10 years, aside for waaaaaay back when I was just out of high school and ran a few 5ks "for fun". I took a short break when I had children, within the past 5 years. For my first child, I only ran for the first 3 months, then was required to stop and for my second, who is only 15 months younger, I ran for about the first 5 months of pregnancy.

     

    My half PR is 1:53:59, but that was about 2 years ago. Since then I've run the following half marathon times:

    1:58 May 2011

    2:04 Oct 2011 (was training for a marathon and ran extra mileage before and after, so did not go all out)

    1:56 March 2012

    1:57 May 2012

    2:01 Oct 2012 (coming off injury and very hot day)

    1:59 March 2013

     

    The 30mpw question is tough. I've been doing that on and off for the past 6 years. I say on and off because I've run 2 marathons (2006 & 2011) and I ran 35-40 for those. For the past 2 years, I was more around 25 when I trained for the half, so I recently decided to be more consistent and do 30.

     

    When I run the tempo, I run the tempo portion at around hmp minus 30 seconds....

    Interval: 400m, rest 400m...I know this is probably too long a rest. I try to do them at 5k pace

    800m, rest 400m. I run these about 15 sec slower than 5k pace

    1600m.....I really did not follow a rule, I was running the intervals between 7:40-7:50 pace. Rested 800m.

     

    Thanks for any additional input!! I agree I can run a new PR, I just thought I'd shoot to get closer this spring and work from there to get to the PR by fall.


    Mmmmm...beer

      I'm just a beginner myself, but I think the OP might be served better by getting in more miles.  Her half times are fairly consistent over the last two years, which tells me that her endurance has stayed about the same.  The way to increase your endurance is to to get more time on your feet.  If your goal is the half, I'd replace the intervals with another easy run, and add more easy miles overall.  Working your long run up to 15-16 miles might help too, getting comfortable at that distance definitely helped me on my last half, along with 40-50mpw.  You can look through my log and see what I ran for the last five months to drop my half time from 1:50 to 1:28.  Of course, I've been accused of being part robot and/or alien, so YMMV, but I believe that a stronger base would serve you well.

      -Dave

      My running blog

      2015 Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-37 10k | sub-1:23 HM | sub-3 M

      roadrunnermom


        I'm just a beginner myself, but I think the OP might be served better by getting in more miles.  Her half times are fairly consistent over the last two years, which tells me that her endurance has stayed about the same.  The way to increase your endurance is to to get more time on your feet.  If your goal is the half, I'd replace the intervals with another easy run, and add more easy miles overall.  Working your long run up to 15-16 miles might help too, getting comfortable at that distance definitely helped me on my last half, along with 40-50mpw.  You can look through my log and see what I ran for the last five months to drop my half time from 1:50 to 1:28.  Of course, I've been accused of being part robot and/or alien, so YMMV, but I believe that a stronger base would serve you well.

         

        Thanks, and wow, your improvement in only 5 months is amazing!! So how can I increase my mileage without injury? I just can't seem to drop a few minutes off my half time.


        Mmmmm...beer

           

          Thanks, and wow, your improvement in only 5 months is amazing!! So how can I increase my mileage without injury? I just can't seem to drop a few minutes off my half time.

           

          Thanks. Smile  You didn't say, but have you been prone to injury when trying to increase your mileage in the past?  Everyone is different, I would say you'd have to experiment to see what you can handle.  I'd guess that if you dropped the interval portion of your six miler, that you'd probably be able to go longer than six miles that day, or maybe better, have energy left to increase the distance on your easy run the next day.  You didn't say how long your easy and recovery runs are, but you could look at gradually increasing those as well, and obviously the long run too.  Not all at once tho of course, I would keep your long run where it's at for now, and work on increasing the mileage on your other easy days, then work on building your long run to 15-16 miles.  Some like the 10% rule, but when I was ramping up my mileage I just added miles and then gauged how I felt, if it felt like too much, I backed off a lil and tried again, if it felt ok, then I kept going.  My speed has improved dramatically with nothing but easy miles, I think a lot of people discount the power of a strong base, especially for beginners.  Obviously there's the rule of diminished returns, and at some point you have to get really focused to keep seeing improvements, but I think most everyone could see gains with more easy miles.

          -Dave

          My running blog

          2015 Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-37 10k | sub-1:23 HM | sub-3 M

          roadrunnermom


             

            Thanks. Smile  You didn't say, but have you been prone to injury when trying to increase your mileage in the past?  Everyone is different, I would say you'd have to experiment to see what you can handle.  I'd guess that if you dropped the interval portion of your six miler, that you'd probably be able to go longer than six miles that day, or maybe better, have energy left to increase the distance on your easy run the next day.  You didn't say how long your easy and recovery runs are, but you could look at gradually increasing those as well, and obviously the long run too.  Not all at once tho of course, I would keep your long run where it's at for now, and work on increasing the mileage on your other easy days, then work on building your long run to 15-16 miles.  Some like the 10% rule, but when I was ramping up my mileage I just added miles and then gauged how I felt, if it felt like too much, I backed off a lil and tried again, if it felt ok, then I kept going.  My speed has improved dramatically with nothing but easy miles, I think a lot of people discount the power of a strong base, especially for beginners.  Obviously there's the rule of diminished returns, and at some point you have to get really focused to keep seeing improvements, but I think most everyone could see gains with more easy miles.

             

            Knock on wood, my injuries were not major. One in particular was while I was training for the marathon in 2011. I was able to run through it (after approval from podiatrist). Another was a long time ago when I started into running, but that was a combination of doing too much too fast and I was running hills, which I'm not used to, and that shut me down for a bit. Then last year, my knee was giving me issues, but I saw an orthopedist and was given treatment and I have to stay on top of it. So I just am very cautious and no matter how much I hear of the benefits, I stay off the hills!! I avoid hilly races anyway, so I don't feel the need to risk injury. Every time I attempt a hilly run, my knee hurts after. Where I live, there are hardly any hills anyway, so in order to run them, I'd have to drive at least a half hour.

             

            You read so much, some say in order to run fast, you need to "run fast". I can see why for the half marathon that more miles, not necessarily faster miles all the time, can benefit. I like your idea of increasing the mileage of the easier days first, then focus on the long run. Since I just ran the half, I think I'm taking this week off from running just to let my body heal. When I jump back into it next week, I thought of starting at 12-13 miles as a long run and taking it from there. Is there any benefit to alternating long week runs, or is that really for the full? What I mean is for example, running 13 miles as my long run next week, following week do 8-10 as a long run, then back up to 13, etc. My guess is no, but I just thought it might help prevent burning out. Here is what my week looked like since you asked about the easy and recovery runs:

             

            M - 6 miles with intervals

            T - 3 miles easy + weights

            W - 5 miles tempo + stretching, abs, etc.

            Th - cross train + weights

            F - Long run

            S - recovery run, not a set mileage, usually 3-4

            Sunday  - REST

             

            Thanks for all your input and I still am blown away by your 1:28 from a 1:50!!!!  I'd be jumping out of my seat if I could even run 1:50, I feel like I'll NEVER get to that point!!!

               

              What I see in your plan is out of 5 runs per week, you've got 2 quality (tempo + intervals) and a long run on top. So 3 of 5 runs are workouts, and only 2 allow for recovery and easy miles. I'd consider if you want to make 1 of those days an easier run, and rotate between the tempo / interval / hill runs on that Wednesday.

               

              Julia's right, 41 'taint old at all.

               

              +1 on this from Milktruck.    7 weeks out you have roughly 4-5 weeks to get in some good quality training.  (7-recover from yesterday  & taperweek before next HM).  not enough time where you need to make drastic changes in your plan but enough to get in some quality runs whatever you decide  to do.

               

              with that amount of time between the races just keep it simple.  but make sure you give yourself proper REST/RECOVERY before you ramp it up again.  have heard that you need 1 recovery day for every mile you raced (fullout effort) which gives 13 days recovery.  But that is just a general guideline, everyone is different.

               

              be smart,  keep it simple & fun!

              roadrunnermom


                 

                +1 on this from Milktruck.    7 weeks out you have roughly 4-5 weeks to get in some good quality training.  (7-recover from yesterday  & taperweek before next HM).  not enough time where you need to make drastic changes in your plan but enough to get in some quality runs whatever you decide  to do.

                 

                with that amount of time between the races just keep it simple.  but make sure you give yourself proper REST/RECOVERY before you ramp it up again.  have heard that you need 1 recovery day for every mile you raced (fullout effort) which gives 13 days recovery.  But that is just a general guideline, everyone is different.

                 

                be smart,  keep it simple & fun!

                 

                Love it, thanks!!! I like simple and fun!


                Mmmmm...beer

                   

                  Knock on wood, my injuries were not major. One in particular was while I was training for the marathon in 2011. I was able to run through it (after approval from podiatrist). Another was a long time ago when I started into running, but that was a combination of doing too much too fast and I was running hills, which I'm not used to, and that shut me down for a bit. Then last year, my knee was giving me issues, but I saw an orthopedist and was given treatment and I have to stay on top of it. So I just am very cautious and no matter how much I hear of the benefits, I stay off the hills!! I avoid hilly races anyway, so I don't feel the need to risk injury. Every time I attempt a hilly run, my knee hurts after. Where I live, there are hardly any hills anyway, so in order to run them, I'd have to drive at least a half hour.

                   

                  You read so much, some say in order to run fast, you need to "run fast". I can see why for the half marathon that more miles, not necessarily faster miles all the time, can benefit. I like your idea of increasing the mileage of the easier days first, then focus on the long run. Since I just ran the half, I think I'm taking this week off from running just to let my body heal. When I jump back into it next week, I thought of starting at 12-13 miles as a long run and taking it from there. Is there any benefit to alternating long week runs, or is that really for the full? What I mean is for example, running 13 miles as my long run next week, following week do 8-10 as a long run, then back up to 13, etc. My guess is no, but I just thought it might help prevent burning out. Here is what my week looked like since you asked about the easy and recovery runs:

                   

                  M - 6 miles with intervals

                  T - 3 miles easy + weights

                  W - 5 miles tempo + stretching, abs, etc.

                  Th - cross train + weights

                  F - Long run

                  S - recovery run, not a set mileage, usually 3-4

                  Sunday  - REST

                   

                  Thanks for all your input and I still am blown away by your 1:28 from a 1:50!!!!  I'd be jumping out of my seat if I could even run 1:50, I feel like I'll NEVER get to that point!!!

                   

                  Sounds like you're pretty in tune with your body and have been able to nip your injuries in the bud quickly, that's good.  I do agree with the thinking that if you want to run longer and faster, then you need to run longer and faster, but for me focusing on the running longer part has really helped the running faster part. Smile  I think if you can increase your overall endurance, then you will be able to push that much harder come race day.  The schedule you listed will put you right at 30mpw, and then I'd work on increasing the easy runs and then the long run.  As your endurance improves, it's funny how your perception of distance will change, my easy runs now are 8-10 miles, and I can run 'em every day like I used to do my 2-3 milers.

                   

                  No problem, hope some of it helps.  I'm always a lil hesitant to give advice, since I'm still new myself, but I've been noticing a pretty consistent trend of low mileage runners not getting the results they want, and I can't help but think that more miles would help, since it's helped me.  Thanks, it's hard to believe sometimes that I've been able to improve this much in my first year, can't help but think that there's at least some natural talent that's been laying dormant all these years.

                  -Dave

                  My running blog

                  2015 Goals | sub-18 5k | sub-37 10k | sub-1:23 HM | sub-3 M

                  roadrunnermom


                     

                    Sounds like you're pretty in tune with your body and have been able to nip your injuries in the bud quickly, that's good.  I do agree with the thinking that if you want to run longer and faster, then you need to run longer and faster, but for me focusing on the running longer part has really helped the running faster part. Smile  I think if you can increase your overall endurance, then you will be able to push that much harder come race day.  The schedule you listed will put you right at 30mpw, and then I'd work on increasing the easy runs and then the long run.  As your endurance improves, it's funny how your perception of distance will change, my easy runs now are 8-10 miles, and I can run 'em every day like I used to do my 2-3 milers.

                     

                    No problem, hope some of it helps.  I'm always a lil hesitant to give advice, since I'm still new myself, but I've been noticing a pretty consistent trend of low mileage runners not getting the results they want, and I can't help but think that more miles would help, since it's helped me.  Thanks, it's hard to believe sometimes that I've been able to improve this much in my first year, can't help but think that there's at least some natural talent that's been laying dormant all these years.

                    Yeah, I definitely think you have given talent. More power to you, go with it!!!

                    zonykel


                       

                      I believe you are correct re Daniels and VO2Max but I'm not sure about the 5K pace part.  If R and I pace were 5K pace, it seems to me he could have saved himself a lot of trouble by just saying "5K pace" instead of making the elaborate charts.  But, you're right, "max effort" was not a good description on my part.  Max effort would probably be a 50 yard sprint.  Smile

                       

                      Page 24 of the second edition: "Interval training involves repeated runs of up to five minutes each, at about 3,000 to 5,000-meter race pace, with relatively brief recoveries between runs".

                       

                      So, you're right that it's not precisely 5K pace. It was just a rough rule of thumb for me to remember the intensity.

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