2012 Sub-3:00 Marathon Goal Thread (Read 6872 times)

     

    If sub-3 is your goal, rather than running your fastest marathon, I wouldn't even push it to 6:47-6:48. I'd keep it bang on 6:52, until at least halfway, maybe bust it open at 20 if you're feeling great.

     

     

    Bhearn has great advice, and is the pacing master.  That said, you need to find the groove you are comfortable with.  My first sub 3 was a 2:57:07.  I went out trying to hit 6:52's but after a while I realized that it was stupid when it was more comfortable to go a few seconds faster per mile.  That said, it was my 10th marathon and I had plenty of experience at that point to know what blow up pace feels like.  

     

    Also, nothing wrong with doing a little warm-up especially if the routine loosens up the muscles.  Just keep the pace super slow except for one or two striders, especially if it is hot.  

    J2R


      Bhearn has great advice, and is the pacing master.  That said, you need to find the groove you are comfortable with.  My first sub 3 was a 2:57:07.  I went out trying to hit 6:52's but after a while I realized that it was stupid when it was more comfortable to go a few seconds faster per mile.  That said, it was my 10th marathon and I had plenty of experience at that point to know what blow up pace feels like.

       

      In the 10K race at the weekend I repeatedly slowed myself down to start with, to what was I thought was a more 'reasonable' pace, 6:00. But I kept drifting back to a comfortable-feeling 5:56, so I decided to stick with it, figuring it probably wasn't a 'blow up pace' and was glad I did in the end. It's a fine line between not getting carried away with the adrenaline, and being over-cautious.

        Bhearn is the man.  I also strongly recommend a first half of 1:30-1:32.  Then if you are truly fit to go sub-3:00 you will crush it in the second half.  I feel like almost all of my best marathons (with one notable exception) have been negative splits.

        - Joe

        all running goals are under review by the executive committee.

        DoppleBock


          I would recommend staying smooth and relaxed - If that means 1:28:00 - 1:32:00 ~ Anywhere in the range is reasonable.

           

          That also does not mean starting with 6:30 miles ~ Better to start with 6:50-7:00 1st 3-4 miles and then ease into a range of 6:40-6:50 depending on the mile (Uphill / downhill / into wind etc).  The only thing you can do in the 1st 4 miles is ruin you chance at sub 3 ... of course unless you walk them.

           

          I think the 1:30-1:32 basically puts you in possition to fight for it.  The old saying is that for each second you run per mile too fast the 1st half it will cost you at least 2 seconds per mile (Or much more) in the 2nd half.  So if you run 6:30's = 20 seconds it could mean the best you wll do coming home is 7:30s.

           

           

           

          Bhearn is the man.  I also strongly recommend a first half of 1:30-1:32.  Then if you are truly fit to go sub-3:00 you will crush it in the second half.  I feel like almost all of my best marathons (with one notable exception) have been negative splits.

          http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

          2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

           

          J2R


            Some great advice here, thanks. I think I like the idea of splitting it into two halves - get the first one done in 1:30 and then decide what to do based on how I'm feeling later on. My best marathons have been done with negative splits, too.

              I failed miserably in trying to do a sub-3:00 at Wobegon this spring but I think the hamstring problem I had there is in the past.  I will be running Mankato in a couple weeks but I don't think I am in shape to try for a sub three there.  I will be hoping for around a 3:10 or 3:15, if I can stay healthy, and will try for a sub three sometime in the spring. 

               

              Looks like you smashed that 3:10 goal today -- nice racing!!!

              And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

               

              Rob

                I wasn't DNS at Baystate, but I was nowhere near sub 3, either. 3:10:12. Back to work.

                I literally don't care that I use the word literally incorrectly.

                spinach


                  Looks like you smashed that 3:10 goal today -- nice racing!!!

                   

                   

                  Thank you, this result, 3:03:35, was quite a surprise. Two years of injuries and a series of poor performances and several DNFs really does lead to a big rise in doubts.  I want to thank John Maas.  I ran with him for about miles 6 through 16 ad he really helped me keep up during that stretch.  And I was able to keep him in sight until about mile 22, which helped pull me along.  John if you are still here, Thanks.

                   

                  I may have another sub three in my old legs yet.


                  ultramarathon/triathlete

                    Some great advice here, thanks. I think I like the idea of splitting it into two halves - get the first one done in 1:30 and then decide what to do based on how I'm feeling later on. My best marathons have been done with negative splits, too.

                     

                    Agreed, this  sounds good.  Someone I run with mentioned their 10,10,10 plan for their marathons.  He suggested I try something like this: (although I need to work out the math still to see how this really pans out but it sounds close)

                     

                    The first 10 miles "easy" -no faster than 6:50, probably closer to 6:55. 

                    At mile 10, evaluate progress, speed up slightly -a few seconds/mile.  6:48-6:52 range?

                    Final 10k, take inventory again, drop pace again. Low-mid 6:40s?

                     

                    For every marathon I've raced, I've hit positive splits ("banking time early").  It's worked to reach decent goals, but I genuinely believe I'd have surpassed those goals if I went out a little slower, ran stronger at the end.  I've lost too much time with a massive fade and barely squeaked by.

                    HTFU?  Why not!

                    Coach: Empire Tri Club 

                    Speed Coach: Brooklyn Tri Club

                      Thank you, this result, 3:03:35, was quite a surprise. Two years of injuries and a series of poor performances and several DNFs really does lead to a big rise in doubts.  I want to thank John Maas.  I ran with him for about miles 6 through 16 ad he really helped me keep up during that stretch.  And I was able to keep him in sight until about mile 22, which helped pull me along.  John if you are still here, Thanks.

                       

                      I may have another sub three in my old legs yet.

                      Spinach,

                      You ran an amazingly strong race in Mankato on Sunday.

                      It was a pleasure to share some miles with you!

                      In my opinion, Mankato is a tougher than average road marathon course.

                      I think you are at a level where you should be able to crack 3:00 again soon on an easier course. (like Wobegon)

                      John

                      J2R


                        Well, I'm pleased to say that I managed it. Got 2:59:30 at the Frankfurt Marathon yesterday, in temperatures just above freezing. Last 3 miles very tough, probably because of dehydration as much as anything else (water served in small quantities in plastic cups which cracked when I gripped them), but managed to hold a reasonably level pace throughout. Slight negative splits of 1:29:55 and 1:29:36.

                         

                        So, a sub-3 is doable on 30 hours a week. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend it!

                          Well, I'm pleased to say that I managed it. Got 2:59:30 at the Frankfurt Marathon yesterday, in temperatures just above freezing. Last 3 miles very tough, probably because of dehydration as much as anything else (water served in small quantities in plastic cups which cracked when I gripped them), but managed to hold a reasonably level pace throughout. Slight negative splits of 1:29:55 and 1:29:36.

                           

                          So, a sub-3 is doable on 30 hours a week. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend it!

                           

                          Well paced. Congrats!


                          ultramarathon/triathlete

                            Well, I'm pleased to say that I managed it. Got 2:59:30 at the Frankfurt Marathon yesterday, in temperatures just above freezing. Last 3 miles very tough, probably because of dehydration as much as anything else (water served in small quantities in plastic cups which cracked when I gripped them), but managed to hold a reasonably level pace throughout. Slight negative splits of 1:29:55 and 1:29:36.

                             

                            So, a sub-3 is doable on 30 hours a week. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend it!

                             

                            Nice work!  What did you do for nutrition?

                            HTFU?  Why not!

                            Coach: Empire Tri Club 

                            Speed Coach: Brooklyn Tri Club

                              Well, I'm pleased to say that I managed it. Got 2:59:30 at the Frankfurt Marathon yesterday, in temperatures just above freezing. Last 3 miles very tough, probably because of dehydration as much as anything else (water served in small quantities in plastic cups which cracked when I gripped them), but managed to hold a reasonably level pace throughout. Slight negative splits of 1:29:55 and 1:29:36.

                               

                              So, a sub-3 is doable on 30 hours a week. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend it!

                               

                              Congrats.  Well earned!

                              - Joe

                              all running goals are under review by the executive committee.

                              J2R


                                What I meant above, of course, was not 30 hours a week but 30 miles a week - if you look back to my original postings in this thread, you'll see I was concerned about not having done nearly enough weekly mileage, with my average over the last 4-5 months being around 30 miles per week. I still think this is an issue, and something to be remedied for my next marathon, in London in April. But I was clearly able to get by on basic fitness (my 10K time in the run-up to the marathon, 37:05, was probably faster than would normally be 'needed' for a sub-3), as well as having done quite a few back to back mid long runs so I was used to running on tired legs. This was obviously handy as I was able to throw in a 6:26 mile at mile 25.

                                 

                                What did I do for nutrition? I had a gel at about mile 10, another at mile 18 and then plied myself with jelly babies (don't know if you have them in the States, they're pretty like jelly beans) thereafter, 1 every mile or so. I had carb loaded very meticulously for a couple of days before, but something went wrong, either with the carbohydrates or the hydration, because for the last 3-4 miles I was feeling increasingly, oppressively drowsy, overpoweringly sleepy, making me just want to lie down on the road and go asleep. It was the strangest and most unpleasant experience - by the end I felt almost unconscious, and all the time I had to just tell my legs to keep going, whatever my brain was doing. I hardly knew where I was at the end - I just knew that I'd got my target time. The strange thing was that I didn't drop pace at all while this was going on - in fact, I sped up towards the end, as mentioned above. I think I might start a new thread about this drowsiness thing, see if anyone else has had it. Is this my own version of 'the wall'? In which case, how did I keep on running?