In need of advice! (Read 1035 times)

 I was a little weary about racing only 5ks with a 5k goal race coming up because I have read a lot about how varying the race distances can help across the board so I don't want to get it in my head that I am only a 5k racer.

Kimmie:

Yes, it is true that it would be very helpful and benefitial to vary the racing distances but it's got to be with a clear purpose.  I think it would be beneficlal for you at this point to do some longer run at solid effort because you sort of lack distance work at this point and it would be good to stimulate that part of it.  Now that does not mean you should run another 10-mile or a half marathon or something like that in the following weeks.  Likewise, after this 10-miler, it would probably be beneficial for you to, if you can, run a 1500m race or something like that.  If not, do some 1500m or a mile time trial instead--that would also be benefitial. 

It is beneficial to do 100 miles a week--Lydiard said that.  That does not mean you should be running 100 miles a week on the week of your most important race.  So many still don't get it.  It is beneficial to do interval training.  But not all the time throughout the year.  There's a time to do certain things; there's a time to do some other stuff. 

If you don't change what you've been doing AT ALL; but, once a week (or, let's make it once every 2 weeks), you go out and run 5k as hard as you can.  Nothing else change; just add that.  You'll improve your 5k time a minute or so without changing anything else at all simply because you'll learn to run a hard 5k.  You want to play a guitar well; you practice playing a guitar.  You don't get better at playing a guitar by practicing a piano.  It might help in some way (to read music note?); same with running.  Your 5k might improve well a bit by running 12 miles easy.  But the best way to improve your 5k race is to race a 5k.  Once again, so many (particularly at letsrun.com forum) make a mistake; they think "That's it!"  You run a lot of mileage at easier pace to build your base so you won't break down by doing lots of 5k race.  Without it, you run a few 5ks and then you'll get "stuffed". 

Okay, enough of going back to Lydiard.  But the point is; what's wrong with being a 5k runner?  If you want to run a good 5k, you run 5k.  You'll still improve your 10k or 10-miler; but not as effectively.

In 1984, I was in New Zealand.  One of the public interest was whether John Walker, the Olympic 1500m champion from 1976 Montreal (missed Moscwo due to boycott) attempt to run 1500 or 5000m at LA Olympics.  It took him the logest time to decide.  Arthur Lydiard said that he wasted a valuable time to run 5000m to get used to it.  As the man who broke 3:50 barrier for the mile for the first time in history, it is easy for him to run 58 seconds 400m.  For 5000m, you ONLY need to run 63 or 64 seconds.  "But you've got to maintain it for 12 and a half laps and that's a hell of a work," said Olympic 1500 champion, Seb Coe said and he never made the transition to 5000m.  We felt John Walker could have run a hell of a 5000m, given his strength to run cross country and even a marathon (he attempted one and ran at 2:19 pace up to 22 miles or something).  But, even for John Walker, he needed to get his body used to running 12.5 laps at much slower 63~64 seconds lap.  That's race specificity.

 

I always liked Drayton.  By the way, this is what he said after he won Boston marathon in either 1976 or 77 (can't remember):

 

“Basically, you have all these different types of training and different types of workouts.  You’ve got general distance running, you’ve got fartlek, you’ve got hill work, you’ve got aerobic training sessions, you’ve got anaerobic training sessions and then you’ve got the rest phase.  You take these phases and you arrange them in the right order.  You have to work in time frames.  You attach so many weeks to each phase.

 

“What most of the runners do…is try to incorporate any number of these different types of training in a typical week.  They will do distance one day, and track another time, and maybe a little hill work.  They’re sort of fishing in the dark.  That’s the biggest mistake.

 

“You can get fit no matter what you do, but the idea is to get the best out of yourself.  So you should take each of these phases, arrange them in the right order in degree of difficulty, attach so many weeks to each phase, and stick with it.  If you are doing hill work, don’t introduce track workouts at all.  If you are doing general distance, don’t introduce hill work.

 

“What I’m saying, essentially, is that you have to be very organized with your training.  You work in time frames.  You work in units.  The order would be general distance, hill work, aerobic track, anaerobic track and then the rest phase.  The rest phase is a drastic taper.  This could take anywhere from seven days to three weeks, depending on the event.  What you do in the rest phase is a combination of aerobic and anaerobic, high quality and low quality.  And the general principle that can be applied to each phase is one rest day followed by one hard day, depending on your state of fitness.”

 

Without specifying, that's pretty much the essense of Lydiard.  What's underlined is what Kimmie was asking about in other thread--taper.

I lke that.  My plans for this summer have some unique challenges to them.  I'd mentioned here already about running the 5 Peaks trail series, the schedule is here:

http://www.5peaks.com/schedule.asp?p=on

These are tough courses, always hilly, and can be very technical.  So, my goal is being quite fit, be prepared for the hills, and essentially making each of these race-a-month events for the summer a goal race of their own.  I've moved my noontime runs to a more undulating route that has virtually no flat sections.  Most of my mornings are easy (I'm doubling whenever I can) with one dedicated hill workout, and if I'm up to it I'll do a tempo run somewhere.

I'm waffling a little bit on how best to do the hill workouts.  I can do either long/fast hills (1.2k loops) or short/hard hills (500m loops).  Normally I'd alternate between them but I'm thinking to simply stick with the short/hard ones cuz this is more specific to how these races will go.

Well Nobby I am starting to write down what you are telling me because I know this information will help me (and everyone else) taking part in this thread.

My boyfriend (low 15 5k road, 31 10k road and 1:10 HM guy) does my workouts and most of my training plan for me andI never bothered to ask WHY I was given the workouts he gives me - I just did as I was told. I am finally getting it and looking back at my workouts I see in January I had my general distance then a phase of hill work which bf described as "strength phase" then I was given some more "difficult" stuff and then ... I got lost and I couldn't wrap my head around what was going on in my training, but hey it seems to be working and I think with this info I am given I am going to start asking questions and helping put together my schedule.

I told dear bf that I was planning to do the 10 milers (he won last year in 56:12 - freak ) and he seems to also think its a good idea.

I had a bit of a longer workout today (4x5min intervals) and I am starting to feel that a 10 miler is not a good idea. haha well the workout just hurt a lot.

But Nobby, you still haven't answered what book you would recommend reading for someone interested in Lydiard training who is not interested in marathon training.

 Kimmie:

 

To quote what Arthur Lydiard used to always say:

 

"If you ask your coach why you're doing a certain workout and if he/she can't answer; find a new coach."

 

 

If you want a book written by Lydiard and pretty good and not as thick (;o)), I'd say "Distance Training for Young Athletes".  I actually do like this one and, this high school coach from Ohio asked me which book to get to all the invited coaches who would bring the team to the spring meet, I told him this one. 

 

Now, if you want to read more up-to-date stuff, definitely Keith Livingston's "Healthy Intelligent Training" (aka: "H.I.T.").  Here's the review: http://www.flotrack.org/articles/view/767-keith-livingstone-healthy-intelligent-training

  I'm sure he can answer - I just never bothered to ask. Also, living in a small city in Canada means that we can't be choosy with coaches. Maybe when I get a little more serious with running I'll look around.

I was wondering why your log isn't public. I was thinking of stealing some workout ideas from you but a private log makes that very difficult.  I will look into that book but length doesn't bother me - I'm an english major at university so I usually have 4-5+ novels on the go at a time haha

I agree that you should write your own book as well I don't doubt that you could help a lot of people out because I still know I have a long way to go... To think, just over 2 years ago I couldn't break 30 minutes in the 5k to save my life. 32:17 was my best and I was certain that I was just not made to run distance. Now I can't settle with 20:32

...I just never bothered to ask....

Here's one of my favorite stories which I sometimes use as an opening talk:

"A little Suzie was always wondering why her mom chop about 3/4 of an inch off both ends of the ham when she cooks ham.  So one day she asked her mom.  "Mom, why do you chop both ends of a ham when you cook it?"  "That's the way your grandma used to cook," she replies.  So when her grandma came over to visit, Suzie asked her the question.  "That's the way your great grandma used to cook a ham," she said.  So, for Thankgiving Day, when they all visited great grandma's place, little Suzie asked her why.  "Well, we were so poor at the time that that was the only way we could fit the ham in our tiny pot!"

If you don't understand the reason why you're doing a certain workout, you may waste a lot of valuable time by doing something you may not need to or something you should not be doing.  You should always understand the reason why you're doing a certain workout.  You should never ever follow ANY training schedule blindly.  What works for one person may destroy other.

Lorraine Moller had written an excellent article about principles of Lydiard training for Running Times: http://runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=18121  Check out the opening story about Canadian runner (I believe it was Bruce Kidd).  Exactly the same 400m repeats workout can be the final nail in the coffin for one athlete; totally necessary workout for other.  Why do you do it?  If it reads; "12 X 400m", why 12?  Why 400m?  Some people talk about 20-mile run for a marathon preparation; why 20?  What's this 3 X 20-miler?  Do you have to do 3 of them?  Why 3?  You have to ask those question, when putting together a training program yourself, and also have to be able to ANSWER those questions before you put together a program.  Otherwise, you'll creat inbalance in the program and won't achieve ultimate performance you otherwise could.  You see so many people saying; "Oh, my goal is to break 4 hours..."  You ask them why 4 hours, or what makes them think they could break 4 hours, 9 out of 10, they have no clue.  They are just getting those numbers out of air based on nothing.  They are more likely to get disappointed when they couldn't achieve it and, frustrated, they would most likely try too hard and end up getting hurt.  Nobody trains harder than poor athletes and nobody get more disappointed than poor athletes themselves because they have no clue what they're doing and why they're doing it.  So don't be one! ;o)

All in favor of a new forum called "Ask Nobby"?

 Correction.  You are a coach.  You stay in shape.  You enjoy running but you aren't "in training" at this time for any races.  Right?  

 

 

That's one way to look at it; thank you! ;o)