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Little help from the Experts? Newbie training plan help... (Read 1214 times)

Yeshua1964


    1. Relative newbie, started running in July after a couple of decades of not running.  (7 months now)

    2. Age 47. Weight 205. Six one.

    3. Ran two 5k's in after a couple of months of running, 20:35 was the best one. I think I could break 19 now, will let ya know when the weather gets nicer. 

    4. Ran a marathon in Jan. 3:25:36.  Used a plan, but usually averaged 40-50mpw.  I was injured during most of Nov., early Dec. as I was in the wrong shoes.  Who would have thought a heavy runner needs minimalistic shoes?

    5. I am doing another marathon over Memorial day, and hopefully MCM in Oct.  Might do a few short races in between.

    Now to the questions;

    1. This week I am around 70mpw, in the middle of a month of building an aerobic base after having a VO2 max. test done (58.9) as I was told I was running all anaerobically...too much fast stuff and no base.   I plan on going between 70-80, until the May marathon and then reassessing to see if that was right...or if I need more. Does this sound crazy given my history?

    2. In addition to the running I am aqua jogging 3-4 days a week, between 30-45 minutes per session to save on the legs.  Should I continue this all the way through, or discontinue once I get  closer to peaking?  (If I even know when that happens. Ha.) Or just stop when taper begins?

    3. Since the marathon, I have put almost all my miles on the treadmill.  Trying to save my legs. I figure between that, track work, and trails...I should be okay.  My question is, how many miles per week should be on the road in preparation?  Is there a percentage?  The May marathon is a road marathon. 

    Thanks for your time and any advice anyone may have.

    Yeshua1964


      No experts in the house?  Too convoluted of a question(s)?

        1. Relative newbie, started running in July after a couple of decades of not running.  (7 months now)

        2. Age 47. Weight 205. Six one.

        3. Ran two 5k's in after a couple of months of running, 20:35 was the best one. I think I could break 19 now, will let ya know when the weather gets nicer. 

        4. Ran a marathon in Jan. 3:25:36.  Used a plan, but usually averaged 40-50mpw.  I was injured during most of Nov., early Dec. as I was in the wrong shoes.  Who would have thought a heavy runner needs minimalistic shoes?

        5. I am doing another marathon over Memorial day, and hopefully MCM in Oct.  Might do a few short races in between.

        Now to the questions;

        1. This week I am around 70mpw, in the middle of a month of building an aerobic base after having a VO2 max. test done (58.9) as I was told I was running all anaerobically...too much fast stuff and no base.   I plan on going between 70-80, until the May marathon and then reassessing to see if that was right...or if I need more. Does this sound crazy given my history?

        2. In addition to the running I am aqua jogging 3-4 days a week, between 30-45 minutes per session to save on the legs.  Should I continue this all the way through, or discontinue once I get  closer to peaking?  (If I even know when that happens. Ha.) Or just stop when taper begins?

        3. Since the marathon, I have put almost all my miles on the treadmill.  Trying to save my legs. I figure between that, track work, and trails...I should be okay.  My question is, how many miles per week should be on the road in preparation?  Is there a percentage?  The May marathon is a road marathon. 

        Thanks for your time and any advice anyone may have.

        This is actually a kind of very interesting post.  You being 47 years old, been running for ONLY 7 months and weighing 200 pounds and already run the first marathon in very impressive 3:25; it seems to me, however, a few things just don't seem to add up and I was scratching my head...  VO2Max of 58 is VERY good and it actually gives the estimated performance of 17:20 for 5k and 2:47 marathon.  It is conceivable that you have this great potential (VO2Max 58) but because you are very heavy, probably on the over-weight side, and quite new to running that your actual performances don't live up to that potential.  I don't know where you did the VO2Max test but it is probably almost physiologically impossible to do 40-50MPW of "all anaerobic" exercise for 7 months.  Also, I'd be curious to know how they determined that all your training were done anaerobically...  Also I was wondering, if you are running 70-80MPW, and if you were doing 3-4 days of aqua running, whether you were running every day, 10-miles a day with 20 on weekend PLUS 3-4 days of aqua running 30-45 minutes; OR if you were covering 70-80MPW with 3-4 days of running AND doing 3-4 days of aqua running....  Either way, if you were running 30-40 all anaerobic and achieved 3:25 marathon in 7 months, how much treadmill running you do is probably the last thing you should worry about whether the marathon is run on the road, track, trail or grass.  Why change anything that had worked so well!?

        Yeshua1964


          This is actually a kind of very interesting post.  You being 47 years old, been running for ONLY 7 months and weighing 200 pounds and already run the first marathon in very impressive 3:25; it seems to me, however, a few things just don't seem to add up and I was scratching my head...  VO2Max of 58 is VERY good and it actually gives the estimated performance of 17:20 for 5k and 2:47 marathon.  It is conceivable that you have this great potential (VO2Max 58) but because you are very heavy, probably on the over-weight side, and quite new to running that your actual performances don't live up to that potential.  I don't know where you did the VO2Max test but it is probably almost physiologically impossible to do 40-50MPW of "all anaerobic" exercise for 7 months.  Also, I'd be curious to know how they determined that all your training were done anaerobically...  Also I was wondering, if you are running 70-80MPW, and if you were doing 3-4 days of aqua running, whether you were running every day, 10-miles a day with 20 on weekend PLUS 3-4 days of aqua running 30-45 minutes; OR if you were covering 70-80MPW with 3-4 days of running AND doing 3-4 days of aqua running....  Either way, if you were running 30-40 all anaerobic and achieved 3:25 marathon in 7 months, how much treadmill running you do is probably the last thing you should worry about whether the marathon is run on the road, track, trail or grass.  Why change anything that had worked so well!?

           

          1. Too heavy, I agree with.  Was a powerlifter.  BMI hitting at 19-21 according to my scale.  I need to get my weight down if I'm going to get better at this. I thank you for the compliment on the time.

          2. I think I could get close to an under 18 5k right now, but the marathon was one mistake after another.  Hopefully I will improve this next time out.

          3. When I did the testing, she said I went right into anaerobic mode.  My mileage up to that point had been too fast, fast being relative as it is very slow for many others. The testing said I went into anaerobic at a relatively low HR, and that to go slower to push that zone 1 number higher.  (Have to excuse me if I'm making little sense, this is new to me..) Thus the reason for the month of slower miles right now, zone 1 up to 118, zone 2 up to 128 BPM. I think she was probably just trying to be a bit zealous on the side of "all" my training had been anaerobic. She said my aerobic base number was at 109 (15.0 K cal/min)  and the aerobic threshold number was 144 (25.2 K Cal/min.) She said that I wanted to make the ab number closer to the at number.  So, even when I get some faster miles in  there will still be a place for the lower zone mileage.

          4. I just recently bumped up the miles, last two weeks, to the low 70 range...and if my body cooperates, want to be closer to 80 for this training cycle. I train everyday, some days I split the runs.  

          5. Change to improve of course.   Or tweak it continually until I screw something up. Ha.  Actually trying not to do that, thus the reason I was asking for advice.  Thank you for your time.  I appreciate it.

            3. When I did the testing, she said I went right into anaerobic mode.  My mileage up to that point had been too fast, fast being relative as it is very slow for many others. The testing said I went into anaerobic at a relatively low HR, and that to go slower to push that zone 1 number higher.  (Have to excuse me if I'm making little sense, this is new to me..) Thus the reason for the month of slower miles right now, zone 1 up to 118, zone 2 up to 128 BPM. I think she was probably just trying to be a bit zealous on the side of "all" my training had been anaerobic. She said my aerobic base number was at 109 (15.0 K cal/min)  and the aerobic threshold number was 144 (25.2 K Cal/min.) She said that I wanted to make the ab number closer to the at number.  So, even when I get some faster miles in  there will still be a place for the lower zone mileage.

            I'm really curious to find out where "she" gets all this information...  I'm assuming you were doing some sort of treadmill test???  How did "she" determine you were "getting into anaerobic" at certain HR?  Was "she" checking blood lactate level?  I'm assuming aerobic base number of 109 and threshold number of 144 are HR???  But K cal/min?  How did "she" determine the base number vs. threshold number?  It sort of makes sense but not really.  Especially the fact you don't sound like you quite understand what you're talking about here either sort of tells me that "she" was just throwing a bunch of fancy terms (like "momentum of gravity"...what the hell is that?) but "she" really didn't know what the hell "she" was talking about.  Wherever you did this test, how did you find it?  

            Yeshua1964


              You are correct, I have no clue.  Hell, I just learned what striders are when I was at a gait analysis last week.  I train by myself and the information I get is off the internet, and we both know how that can get skewed. Again, the reason I am asking questions..etc. I am just going by what I was told.  I just like to run, but I want to do it effectively and without wasting time doing things that are not going to move me toward my goals.  I was referred to her by a coaching service, that I ended up not using. No blood levels.  It was a treadmill test with a mask that measured the oxygen intake that produced those numbers.  

                  I just like to run, but I want to do it effectively and without wasting time doing things that are not going to move me toward my goals.

                 

                Good luck with that.

                 

                I suggest reading a book:

                Brad Hudson's Run Faster

                Daniels' Running Formula

                 

                These are two books that are clear and organized, and they present different approaches; one emphasizing training to race (Hudson) and the other emphasizing training to move your physiological indicators (Daniels). Read these two books cover to cover and you will know more than most of the internet.

                 

                Nobby's also got a great internet program that is Lydiard-based. I think the best Lydiard book is Keith Livingston's. 

                 

                Cheers!

                Yeshua1964


                  Thanks for the reply, Jeff.

                  Yeshua1964


                    Okay.  Elitist douche bags.  I don't have the same knowledge as you, so you suggest reading a book...as if I didn't know what that was. Condescension at it's best. I will just run and stop asking questions here.  In a few months, I will out run most of you anyway.  Embarrassing?  Have ya been doing this for a while and have no talent at it?  So, ya just want to make fun of the new guys?  Pathetic.  No way I subscribe here, and it's my last post.  Thanks for the "help."  

                      um.

                      "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

                        I have misunderstood intent and tone many times on the Internet. But I did not see that one coming. 

                         

                        MTA: I wonder if he was referring to runner A or B?

                         

                          Chill out bud. Your initial post was a little all over the place, and most people don't want to give much for advice without seeing your training log.

                           

                          Find a local training group that's got someone near your pace. Run with them some. Run by yourself some. Don't worry too much about aquajogging or not, or what percentage should be on the road. Do some on the road, maybe once or twice a week at least, and one or two of your long runs. Biggest thing, relax. You seem like you're strung pretty tight.

                          2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

                          2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

                            the information I get is off the internet, and we both know how that can get skewed.

                             

                            and how.

                             

                            I think you should reconsider. There's a lot of good people with a lot of good knowledge here. I would assume best intentions from everyone.

                            Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                            We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes


                            an amazing likeness

                              Thanks for the reply, Jeff.

                               

                              Okay.  Elitist douche bags.

                               

                              Geez, what happened in the 22 minutes between 4:33P and 4:55P?  Confused

                              Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

                                Geez, what happened in the 22 minutes between 4:33P and 4:55P?  Confused

                                 

                                Same thing that happens in the meadow at dusk.

                                Dont call it a comeback

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