Forums >Racing>Will loosing upper body mass make me faster?
Hey, im a fairly new runner of less than 2 years. Ill be 40 in 2 weeks. I have been a weight lifter for a long time and built up a big upper body from years of bench pressing etc. Ive came a long ways in running . Less than 2 years ago I couldnt run 1 mile now my 5k pr is 20:55 and I ran a my first full marathon in 3:40 the day after a 6 mile USMC mud run... I cross train a lot so I do not purely run. I do however run 30 miles per week. I try to include speed work 400 meter repeats, a tempo run, and 10 + miles slow long runs.
My love has been obstacle racing though. Since starting them last year Im really big on mud runs and spartan races. I usually place top 5% in obstacle races and do well. But I wanna get faster and have more endurance. Im 5"11 185 lbs and carry around a muscular upper body. My pics :. http://w8lifter1.tripod.com/Shoot.jpg
So my question is if running obstacle races is my main goal and wantiing to be faster in general how much would it help me to burn some upper body and drop my weight to 170 lbs? I know technically you are suppose to gain 2 secs per mile for each lbs of fat loss.
I cant help but feel my upper body muscle mass is slowing me down somewhat especially endurance wise.. 99% of the time when i get caught up to and passed in a OCR race its by people who weigh 15-45 lbs less than me. Just wanted more expericned runners thoughts.
simply put, yes, dropping some lb's will make you more efficient, thus faster. However, I'm not as knowledgeable in this area as I'm sure others are as far as the exact gain you can expect if you go from 185 to 170, so I'll let them chime in on this.
Regarding your training:
One question I have is: What is the average distance you are running in these particular obstacle courses? I'm assuming you are running distances of 10-13 miles or so in these obstacle races, correct????? 400 repeats are fine for speedwork, but they are probably more effective for shorter distance races, such as 1 mile races and 5k's. As race distances increase, so too should the distance of your repeats. For instance, the general consensus for 1/2 and full marathon speedwork would be to be doing more 800's or better yet, mile repeats in terms of your speedwork. These are obviously done at slower pace than what you do your 400's at. The other big thing that will help your speed is to simply put in more miles (many of them at a slow easy pace). 30 miles per week on average is quite low, so you have lot of opportunity to make significant improvements in this area as your weekly mileage increases. Just make sure the mileage increase is gradual (10-15% increase per week rule) to avoid injury. One final thing to consider would be to incorporate hill work into your training. There's a famous quote about hills being speedwork in disguise - I couldn't agree more. Personally, I find hills as the best way to improve speed. Not to mention it is one of the safest form of speedwork you can do in terms of limiting chances of injury.
Nice pics by the way - I'd share mine but I'm just that ordinary ("frail" - if you're talking to non runners) 5'10 158 pound looking guy that you probably see passing you in those races that you mention.
The theoretical answer is yes - But do not do it. I was in the same boat as you in 2005 - I had been running about 2 years. I am 6'3 and I was running races @ 205#. I had a 335 pound bench press, pushing 80 pound dumbells 3 sets of 10 overhead press etc. I decided to stop lifting to get faster. I had a high 35 minute 10k and a 2:49 marathon.
It was pretty good the 1st year and I set my marathon PR the next fall 2:45:58.
2009-2010 I was starting to get some muscle inbalances, but hit some home runs in ultra running.
But it has been downhill since. I was happier lifting, it gave me very good overall body muscle balance. It kept my back and core strong. Now I am back lifting, trying to get back to the overall body harmony I had in 2005.
Hey, im a fairly new runner of less than 2 years. Ill be 40 in 2 weeks. I have been a weight lifter for a long time and built up a big upper body from years of bench pressing etc. Ive came a long ways in running . Less than 2 years ago I couldnt run 1 mile now my 5k pr is 20:55 and I ran a my first full marathon in 3:40 the day after a 6 mile USMC mud run... I cross train a lot so I do not purely run. I do however run 30 miles per week. I try to include speed work 400 meter repeats, a tempo run, and 10 + miles slow long runs. My love has been obstacle racing though. Since starting them last year Im really big on mud runs and spartan races. I usually place top 5% in obstacle races and do well. But I wanna get faster and have more endurance. Im 5"11 185 lbs and carry around a muscular upper body. My pics :. http://w8lifter1.tripod.com/Shoot.jpg So my question is if running obstacle races is my main goal and wantiing to be faster in general how much would it help me to burn some upper body and drop my weight to 170 lbs? I know technically you are suppose to gain 2 secs per mile for each lbs of fat loss. I cant help but feel my upper body muscle mass is slowing me down somewhat especially endurance wise.. 99% of the time when i get caught up to and passed in a OCR race its by people who weigh 15-45 lbs less than me. Just wanted more expericned runners thoughts.
I am fuller bodied than Dopplebock
Ostrich runner
My rather significant upper body mass is also pretty loose, but I haven't noticed that it makes me faster.
http://www.runningahead.com/groups/Indy/forum
Running consistently week after week will pay dividends for the next couple of years
Working on running drills 10 minutes 2-3 times a week will increase the efficiency of your stride and pay dividends forever
targeted speed work to the race distance you are looking to excel
Adding mileage will increase you stamina and aerobic capacity
I would look into these in the order that I have written all 1st and then look at upper body muscle loss.
The math for weight loss assumes your stride is 100% efficient and can translate the theoretical improvement into actual improvement. The formula is based on you weight in KG and a recent performance. It assumes you can only transfer so many MMOL of oxygen to your muscles, so it keeps that number constant will reducing KG of body weight.
20:55 5k = a VDOT of 47.3 ml/kg/min
185 pounds = @ 84 kilograms
47.3 x 84 = 3,973 MMOL of Oxygen
170 pounds = 77.3 kg
3,973 MMOL divided by 77.3kg = 51.4 VDOT
http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/racepaces/rp?metres=5000&hr=&min=20&sec=55&age=40&gender=M&Submit=Calculate
19:30 5k = 51.3 VDOT - Without a 100% efficient stride it will be slower than this at 170 pounds
Spend a couple years working on the 1st things I mention above and you will be faster than that without losing upper body muscle.
Also, know the purpose of the speedwork you are doing.
What are you trying to accomplish with 400 meter repeats?
What are you trying to accomplish with a tempo run - Usually we are working on Lactic Acid Clearing, but sometimes it is to build stamina at a certain pace. How far do you run and how fast?
Please "losing".
Pacing yourself will stop people passing you at the end of a race.
Certified Running CoachCrocked since 2013
That's not half the problem here. Please English.
Old , Ugly and slow
Don't do it.
Gaining muscle is harder as you get older.
The older you get the more important muscle is for health.
Lift 2 days a week and run more.
first race sept 1977 last race sept 2007
2019 goals 1000 miles , 190 pounds , deadlift 400 touch my toes
Labrat
Depending on the balance of time on the course, its entirely possible any gains in the run will be lost on the obstacles.
If I was to plan on doing the Ultra Spartarn Tough Obstacle Colour Mudder Glorun!(TM), I'd be looking to put on some pounds on my upper body from its current state.
5K 20:23 (Vdot 48.7) 9/9/17
10K 44:06 (Vdot 46.3) 3/11/17
HM 1:33:48 (Vdot 48.6) 11/11/17
FM 4:13:43 (Vdot 35.4) 3/4/18
Thanks for the input so far.
Yeah loosing was a typo I was in a hurry. Now i have more time........
Sorry but I rarely see any guys with a lot of muscle mass break 20 min in the 5k at the local ones ive ran.. That is my ultimate goal along with running improving obstacle race times. Speed plays a much bigger role in who wins a obstacle race, as long as a person is strong enough to do pull ups and push ups thats all that is really needed. I will probably be able to do even more of these at 170 lbs.
I know all about lengthening the repeats for what distance you run. I did Yasso 800s just last week. I don't stick with just 400 meter repeats.
Im not gonna drop below 170, I do not wanna look sickly. But I got plenty of muscle and even at 170 im gonna look muscular, but ill use less energy climbing over walls and running up hills.
All the top obstacle racers aka hobie call are elite runners and do not carry around the body builder look that I do.
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Thats for the advice so far. Yeah loosing was a typo I was in a hurry. Now i have more time........ To clarify.. Sorry but I rarely see any guys with a lot of muscle mass break 20 min in the 5k at the local ones ive ran.. That is my ultimate goal along with road running and improving obstacle race times. Speed/endurance plays a much bigger role in who wins a obstacle race, as long as a person is strong enough to do pull ups and push ups thats all that is really needed. I will probably be able to do even more of these at 170 lbs. I know all about lengthening the repeats for what distance race you are training for. I did Yasso 800s just last week. I don't stick with just 400 meter repeats. Im not gonna drop below 170, I do not wanna look sickly. But I got plenty of muscle and even at 170 im gonna look muscular, but ill use less energy climbing over walls and running up hills. All the top obstacle racers aka hobie call are elite runners and do not carry around the body builder look that I do. .
Thats for the advice so far.
To clarify..
Sorry but I rarely see any guys with a lot of muscle mass break 20 min in the 5k at the local ones ive ran.. That is my ultimate goal along with road running and improving obstacle race times. Speed/endurance plays a much bigger role in who wins a obstacle race, as long as a person is strong enough to do pull ups and push ups thats all that is really needed. I will probably be able to do even more of these at 170 lbs.
I know all about lengthening the repeats for what distance race you are training for. I did Yasso 800s just last week. I don't stick with just 400 meter repeats.
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hobie call
Oh you mean the would-be sub-two-hour marathoner?
Runners run