Threshold Pace? (Read 2200 times)

    Kimmie,

    It is not this black and white but to simplify for you  think of threshold/tempo running as strong aerobic running vs running "too hard tempos" as more of anaerobic running. You want to train your body to run more efficiently aerobically and train your body to get rid of lactic acid efficiently as it is being produced vs. creating an anaerobic overload too early in a training run.

     

    This is not training, it is racing in training and it beats the hell out of you. If you run too hard for tempos, you are just running more anaerobically and not training the body to run more efficiently aerobically. Also, extra miles and miles and comfortable paced long distance runs also train the body to work more efficiently and enhance strength/stamina. When you combine tempo work inside of a longer run with warm up and cool down miles, you get a lot of bang for your buck.

    Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!


    I've got a fever...

       At the risk of poking ... I'd also thought a negative to the too-fast tempo pace was that when you've crossed the LT, other physiological mechanisms are put into play (or perhaps emphasized), lessening the stress applied to the LT pathways/mechanisms.  It had been likened to learning to tread water by having your face just above the water's surface most of the time v. just below the surface.  Yeah, you'll learn to tread water, but the latter method isn't optimal.

        

       This is true.  If it's way too fast, it becomes more of an upper aerobic workout, which is what hard intervals are for.  And even if it's somewhat too fast, it may leave you with a lot of extra fatigue, without really imparting extra benefits.

      On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

      Scout7


      CPT Curmudgeon

        And this thread outlines, yet again, the importance of defining terminology.

         

        So far, we have Daniels tempo run, Tinman tempo run, and other-random-internet-persona tempo run.

         

        Which one is right?  In the end, all of them are, because they each know what they mean when they use the term.  The disagreements occur when no one defines what is meant by the use of a term.

         

        Beyond that, it's just running.  We make it harder than it needs to be in order to show the initiated from the acolytes.


        she runs like a girl

          Alright I checked with the Macmillan calculator and it suggested my tempo runs be at 4:16-4:24 per km. Yesterday I hit 4:15. Damn. Ok I will slow down a little. But I guess I'm not as far off as I thought.

          I'm also young and not wise yet so I have that horrible habit of going out too hard  but I'm working on it.

          And Jeff, all these abstract idea do not phase me. Philosophy is one of my minors. I debate abstract and hypothetical situations on a daily basis.

          2010 goals: PR at distances from 3k-HM 3k: 02/02/10 - 12:00 - road 5k :03/13/10 - 20:32 - road 10mile: 04/02/10 - 1:15:49 "The only thing I hate more than running is not running"


          I've got a fever...

            And this thread outlines, yet again, the importance of defining terminology.

             

            So far, we have Daniels tempo run, Tinman tempo run, and other-random-internet-persona tempo run.

             

            Yeah, we haven't even mentioned the Globule Tempo run, where you plan to run 20 minutes @ 1-hour race pace, but you stop about 10 minutes in, drop trou, blow mud, and call it a day.

            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

            Scout7


            CPT Curmudgeon

              Yeah, we haven't even mentioned the Globule Tempo run, where you plan to run 20 minutes @ 1-hour race pace, but you stop about 10 minutes in, drop trou, blow mud, and call it a day.

               

              That was the last category.  I was using it as a catch-all for all of us internet personas.

              Scout7


              CPT Curmudgeon

                Alright I checked with the Macmillan calculator and it suggested my tempo runs be at 4:16-4:24 per km. Yesterday I hit 4:15. Damn. Ok I will slow down a little. But I guess I'm not as far off as I thought.

                I'm also young and not wise yet so I have that horrible habit of going out too hard  but I'm working on it.

                And Jeff, all these abstract idea do not phase me. Philosophy is one of my minors. I debate abstract and hypothetical situations on a daily basis.

                 

                One second ain't a big deal.

                 

                Remember, MacMillan has never met you, seen you run, and has no idea what your current training, past training, or history are.  So I wouldn't set things too much if the run felt good.


                she runs like a girl

                   

                  One second ain't a big deal.

                   

                  Remember, MacMillan has never met you, seen you run, and has no idea what your current training, past training, or history are.  So I wouldn't set things too much if the run felt good.

                  This is true. To be honest I felt good for the first 10-11 minutes, the last 4-5 were hard. I didn't feel like I was oing to hurl or anything but I definitly didn;t feel strong. I just can't figure out how to make running fast feel good. It doesn't. I feel good once I'm done.

                  MTA: but perhaps learning to hurl while running a 4:15km might be something good to master. Just in case.

                  2010 goals: PR at distances from 3k-HM 3k: 02/02/10 - 12:00 - road 5k :03/13/10 - 20:32 - road 10mile: 04/02/10 - 1:15:49 "The only thing I hate more than running is not running"


                  Beware, batbear...

                     

                     

                    You don't want to practice falling apart, but you shouldn't be afraid of it happening.  

                     Great thought, and true in every discipline.  

                    2014 Goal -- Run 5X per week, pain-free (relatively) by end of summer.

                      Kimmi,

                      For you a progressive tempo run is your best bet. After your warm up, take 5 min to ease into your pace it and then progress and this should prevent early anaerobic overload. Make it 20-30 min. OR do 4 X 1 mile at hard tempo pace w/ 1min jogs and this will allow you to recover a bit if you do one too fast. Same physiological benefits.

                      Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

                      Scout7


                      CPT Curmudgeon

                        This is true. To be honest I felt good for the first 10-11 minutes, the last 4-5 were hard. I didn't feel like I was oing to hurl or anything but I definitly didn;t feel strong. I just can't figure out how to make running fast feel good. It doesn't. I feel good once I'm done.

                        MTA: but perhaps learning to hurl while running a 4:15km might be something good to master. Just in case.

                         

                        Sounds close to about right.  At the end, you are going to feel it.  Especially for someone who is relatively new to all this.

                         

                        Of course, I also wouldn't worry about pace, or running "fast".  I would focus on the effort you are putting forth, and not get too wrapped up in numbers.  But that's me.


                        she runs like a girl

                          Ok so I guess this will determine overload:

                          At the end of the tempo should I be able to immediately move into my cool down because I usually give myself 15-30 seconds to chill and relax before I start cooling down - does that mean I went too hard?

                          At the end of the tempo my legs are usually saying "nooooo" and I am very tired. I am always able to complete my cool down run but I feel lik moving directly from tempo to cool down without a small rest would hurt a lot. Is that bad?

                          2010 goals: PR at distances from 3k-HM 3k: 02/02/10 - 12:00 - road 5k :03/13/10 - 20:32 - road 10mile: 04/02/10 - 1:15:49 "The only thing I hate more than running is not running"
                          Scout7


                          CPT Curmudgeon

                            Probably either too hard or too long.

                             

                            You might not be wanting to hold that effort level for the length of time that you are.  If so, then yeah, back off the intensity for those runs.

                              Ok so I guess this will determine overload:

                              At the end of the tempo should I be able to immediately move into my cool down because I usually give myself 15-30 seconds to chill and relax before I start cooling down - does that mean I went too hard?

                              At the end of the tempo my legs are usually saying "nooooo" and I am very tired. I am always able to complete my cool down run but I feel lik moving directly from tempo to cool down without a small rest would hurt a lot. Is that bad?

                               Are you sure you are not kicking at the end of your tempo run like to an imaginary finish line.  Otherwise one should not have the need for a short break before easing into a cool down..  I get to that stage sometimes when doing hill repeats, where I am focused on running up the hill in a certain time (meaning I have been running those initial repeats a tad too fast), and have to walk a bit before jogging back.    


                              she runs like a girl

                                Happyfeet, I think you're on to something. I do find myself hurrying along to the "finish". It's like I forget I'm running for time not distance. As if going faster makes the clock move faster.
                                2010 goals: PR at distances from 3k-HM 3k: 02/02/10 - 12:00 - road 5k :03/13/10 - 20:32 - road 10mile: 04/02/10 - 1:15:49 "The only thing I hate more than running is not running"