RunningAHEAD - Topic: How close together for two races?

T1dawk

Runner

posted: 1/10/2008 at 7:12 PM

I have been training for the Shamrock Marathon on March 16th. On March the 1st there is a Half that I'd like to do. I have a 12 mile run scheduled on my training schedule for the 2nd anyways, but wanted to get some more experienced people's opinion on the issue. If I run the half I guess I want to know how much I should push myself. Would it be okay to run the race hard and then go into taper mode? Thanks for any suggestions!

2010 Races: Snicker's Marathon(2:58:38), Scenic City Trail Marathon(3:26:36), Laurel Highlands Ultra 77(19:13:44), Ironman Louisville(13:07:07) 2011 Races: Mount Cheaha 50k 5:22:47, Tobacco Road Marathon, Mohican 100 Miler

perfesserr

Imminent Catastrophe

posted: 1/10/2008 at 9:48 PM

Assuming that the marathon is your real goal, that would be a perfect training run, but I would not go all out. I'd run it at your goal marathon pace, no faster. Like a good solid tempo run, only with people handing you water, and you get a medal and cool T-shirt too. I've heard great things about the Shamrock Marathon. Let us know.

"Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

"To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

"The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

√ Javelina Jundred Jalloween 2015

Cruel Jewel 50 mile May 2016

Western States 100 June 2016

lasdinaub

posted: 1/11/2008 at 12:37 AM

Ditto what Perfessor said

Next up: A 50k in ? Done: California-Oregon-Arizona-Nevada (x2)-Wisconsin-Wyoming-Utah-Michigan-Colorado

JakeKnight

posted: 1/11/2008 at 10:49 AM

Quote from perfesserr on 1/10/2008 at 9:48 PM:

Assuming that the marathon is your real goal, that would be a perfect training run

I'll add my own ditto. It's perfect. Take the following with a grain of salt - I can't see your log so it may not apply to you. By the way consider making your log public; it makes it easier to answer training questions: Anyway, assuming you're in shape and this isn't your first marathon, I'm not even sure I'd run the half all that easy. I'd probably race it, or at least give 95% effort. I've become convinced that after you build up the training for a marathon, you can actually run 2-3 back to back (say 2-4 weeks apart) and run them fast. My last two marathon PRs came three weeks apart, and the second was a harder course. You could probably run both and run them fast. Then again, if the marathon is your goal (or its your first), I wouldn't risk it. But it will definitely not hurt as a training run.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
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T1dawk

Runner

posted: 1/11/2008 at 10:53 AM

I made my log public. This is my first marathon so that is why I am hesitant at all. I am going to do the half based on what has already been said, and thanks a ton. I feel like I can race it like you said at least at 95 %.

2010 Races: Snicker's Marathon(2:58:38), Scenic City Trail Marathon(3:26:36), Laurel Highlands Ultra 77(19:13:44), Ironman Louisville(13:07:07) 2011 Races: Mount Cheaha 50k 5:22:47, Tobacco Road Marathon, Mohican 100 Miler

Scout7

posted: 1/11/2008 at 10:57 AM
modified: 1/11/2008 at 10:59 AM

If it were me, I would do it. But I would also recognize that my performance for the half is going to directly affect my marathon performance. And I can't not race. So I would keep that in mind. I can't type today... WTF>

JakeKnight

posted: 1/11/2008 at 11:02 AM

Quote from T1dawk on 1/11/2008 at 10:53 AM:

I made my log public. This is my first marathon so that is why I am hesitant at all. I am going to do the half based on what has already been said, and thanks a ton. I feel like I can race it like you said at least at 95 %.

I looked at your log. Looks like you're in great shape for the marathon. Scout's right though: there is a risk that your marathon time could be affected. And you may think you can hold back in the half, but you might find yourself pushing it on race day. I think - not know, think - that you could probably race both and be fine. But maybe not. So think about it if there's some specific time goal for the marathon. Awesome training, by the way. You're going to rock that marathon.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
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Jim2

posted: 1/12/2008 at 3:44 PM

Agree with the others. Two weeks before a marathon is too close for an all out HM race. But it is an excellent time for a 13-mile MP workout, if you use a 3-wek taper. As Scout said, the challenge would be to control your pace to no faster than marathon pace in a race environment....although that is exactly what you will be challenged to do on marathon morning, so "practicing" it in the HM could be helpful. The rule of thumb that I have always followed and advocated for the closest to a marathon for racing (all out) shorter distances is: 15k-HM - three weeks 10k - two weeks 5k - one week, although I have never run a 5k before a marathon. Allowing an additional week or two in all three cases is even better. I did run a 4-mile PR once the day before a marathon. But that was because I hadn't planned to run the marathon and jumped into it on an impulse later that afternoon. Needless to say, the marathon, for which I had not trained, was not a good one. Tongue

Jarhead75

posted: 1/18/2008 at 3:07 PM

I always seem to catch a lot of flak for this but I have done multiple marathons within a week or 2 of each other on more then one occasion. I rtan the Marine Corps Marathon followed by the Richmond Marathon with only a two week seperation and then I ran a hard half in Fredericksburg on Dec 9th and another half on Dec 29th followed by the MS Blues marathon on Jan 5th, and then the First Light Marathon in Mobile on Jan 13th. Each time my second marathon was faster then my first and the recovery time is easy. I have had to force myself to not run the days following days. If the body is conditioned then just go for it. My only suggestion is if this is going to be your first marathon and or you do not have a good racing background then hold off but it is very doable.

"You may all go to hell, and I will go to Texas" Davy Crockett

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rectumdamnnearkilledem

posted: 1/18/2008 at 4:15 PM

I'm glad this thread was posted...I've been wondering the same thing. My very favorite PR HM is 15 days before the marathon I am planning to do in early Oct. I may try to find a different HM to PR at for '08, since I know it would be very difficult to run that race and not go all-out, since it was my best HTFU race ever. k

Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.

~ Sarah Kay

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 1/18/2008 at 4:21 PM
modified: 1/18/2008 at 4:27 PM

I'd do the half, but do it as a sort of tempo run, like PerfesserR said and others echoed. Not at a true tempo pace (which slightly slower than 10k pace) mind you, but rather at goal marathon pace (GMP). Do the first 3 miles easy. Run 8 miles or so at GMP Run the last 2.1 miles really easy as a cooldown. By doing this, you won't kill yourself, but you'll get some quality miles in that will get your body used to your goal pace. MTA: personally, I think 2 weeks out is a little too close to run the whole 13.1 miles at GMP, at least prior to a first marathon. If it were 3~4 weeks out, or if you had a lot of marathon experience, probably no big deal. But for a first marathon, I think two weeks is too close to do a HM at GMP.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

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rectumdamnnearkilledem

posted: 1/18/2008 at 4:24 PM

Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 1/18/2008 at 4:21 PM:

I'd do the half, but do it as a sort of tempo run, like PerfesserR said and others echoed. Not at a true tempo pace (which slightly slower than 10k pace) mind you, but rather at marathon race pace. Do the first 3 miles easy. Run 8 miles or so at your goal marathon pace Run the last 2.1 miles really easy as a cooldown. By doing this, you won't kill yourself, but you'll get some quality miles in that will get your body used to your goal pace.

Hmmm...and I do have a Garmin, now, so pacing would be easy to do. Probably a dumb question, but can a Garmin be programmed to beep at me to stay within particular pace windows during specific mileage spans? Though I would like to find a HM to do to set a new PR at, but it seems that all of them are either close to my marathon or close to 5/3 Bank Riverbank Run 25k (not to mention distance, lodging costs, etc.).

Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.

~ Sarah Kay

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 1/18/2008 at 4:30 PM

Quote from zoom-zoom on 1/18/2008 at 4:24 PM:

Hmmm...and I do have a Garmin, now, so pacing would be easy to do. Probably a dumb question, but can a Garmin be programmed to beep at me to stay within particular pace windows during specific mileage spans?

Not a dumb question at all, just a dumb person trying to answer it. You could create an advanced workout and set up custom speed zones or ranges that you would try to stay in. Garmie would tell you to speed up or slow down if you were out of the zone. But honestly, I think if you just looked at your lap pace (with 1 lap being 1 mile) I think you'd be fine. I've found the use of alarms on heart rate and speed to be kind of annoying.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

zoom-zoom

rectumdamnnearkilledem

posted: 1/18/2008 at 4:35 PM

Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 1/18/2008 at 4:30 PM:

Not a dumb question at all, just a dumb person trying to answer it. You could create an advanced workout and set up custom speed zones or ranges that you would try to stay in. Garmie would tell you to speed up or slow down if you were out of the zone. But honestly, I think if you just looked at your lap pace (with 1 lap being 1 mile) I think you'd be fine. I've found the use of alarms on heart rate and speed to be kind of annoying.

Yeah...the alarms can be smash-worthy. My one friend has hers beep if she goes too slow...so it forces her to run faster than she should. Black eye

She's injured a fair amt., so I think the usefulness of that feature can be abused. Though I DO love the little chirp at each mile marker. Big grin

k

Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.

~ Sarah Kay

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 1/18/2008 at 4:49 PM

Quote from zoom-zoom on 1/18/2008 at 4:35 PM:

Though I DO love the little chirp at each mile marker.

Yeah, that one's great. It sort of knocks me out of my daze and reminds me to notice that there are cars on the road and that I should avoid being hit by them.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

How close together for two races? (Read 813 times)