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Race plans - 10k, 5k then HM (Read 2158 times)

    Okay, I've been plodding along this summer putting in easy miles focusing on low heart rate training.  Not the sexiest thing, but it's working for me.  You can see it in my log where my avg pace jumps up from 10:00 to 11:00 between April and May.  I didn't even start the real low HR training until mid May or it would have been even more dramatic.

     

    I've keeping track of my running since 1/1/11, but really didn't start putting any real miles in until July of last year when I was putting in about 10 mpw, but that dropped to closer to 5 mpw for August and September last year, then picked up to about 12 mpw for the rest of 2011 and then started picking it up really in 2012.

     

    I'm wanting to start shifting gears to somewhat more traditional workouts once or twice a week now to start preparing for a couple races this fall.  I'm thinking of alternating a tempo run and intervals once a week for now, and staying with my low heart rate easy runs the rest of the time.  I still think I'm seeing a benefit just from putting in the miles still.  I'm averaging between 25mpw and 30mpw with some big flucuations this summer with some vacations thrown in there.

     

    The first race is a 10K coming up on September 8th that I really don't have any true goal for.  I ran my first 10K this summer and ran it in a 54:15.  Weather was actually decent at it and I felt good about my performance for where I was at the time.  Wasn't really planning on setting a goal for this race, just try to do my best and hopefully beat my time from June.

     

    The second is a 5K on  October 13th that I do have a goal for, but I'm afraid it is too big of a goal.  I would like to break 24 minutes.  That probably sounds pretty slow to most of you, but the only mile that I have run under 8 minutes in the last 2 years was mile 13 of my half marathon.  I haven't done any speed work in 3 or 4 months so I'm not sure whether I have any shot at that at all.  Per McMillan's calculator if I plug in my half marathon from April 28th (which was an easy course and ideal conditions) it shows I should expect a 25:00 5K.  

     

    I was thinking I would focus on keeping my mileage up and more intervals for the 5k prep.  Probably some 1 mile repeats mixed in there where I actually get close to my goal 5k pace of 7:45.

     

    The last race is another Half Marathon on  November 10th.  I would like to break 2 hours on this one as a goal.  It is a much tougher course than the one that I ran back in April and who knows what the conditions will be in November.  I've been running hills on my longer runs but to keep my heart rate in the target zone I've had to walk up most of the hills.

     

    Not even sure what my question is.  Just starting to think about switching my focus and setting some goals for these upcoming races.  I'm hoping that once we start seeing some cooler weather it will confirm that I'm in better shape now than I was at the start of the summer. I even thought about not setting any goal times, but I'm afraid if I don't I won't push myself as hard, although that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

     

    If anyone has any advice they want to give I'm all ears.

     

    Thanks, Nathan

    Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

      Im impressed. Just start some workouts and Im sure youre times will fall quickly. Workouts could be anything really. Try some, find some that you like.. race lots if thats your thing.. anything.

      Dont call it a comeback

        I think I'm going to add my speed workout in on Wednesdays for now. 

         

        I've been on a pretty consistent schedule when I'm in town of doing elliptical on Monday, 6 miles easy on Tuesday, 4 miles easy on Wednesday, 6 miles easy on Thursday, 2 miles easy on Friday, and a long run of 8 to 12 miles on Saturday or Sunday whichever fits in better and on the other day getting in 3 miles easy.

         

        Next week I'm out of town again so I might try to get a Tempo or Steady State run in one day while I'm on the road.  Plugging my numbers into McMillans calculator I'll probably shoot for an 8:30 pace for 3 miles with a 1/2 mile warmup and cooldown.

         

        The week after that I want to put in some intervals. 

         

        Reading some posts by Nobby and Spaniels post on interval purposes, I think want to try some intervals with short recoveries.

         

        One interval set would be some 1 mile intervals.  My first interval workout will be a 1/2 mile warmup, 1 mile at 8:00, 1/2 mile recovery, 1 mile at 8:00, 1/2 mile recovery, 1 mile at 8:00 and a 1/2 mile cooldown for a total of 5 miles.  I'm getting those target paces from McMillans calculator as well.

         

        Another interval set that I think would be good would be 3/4 mile warmup, 1/2 mile at 3:50, 1/4 mile recovery, 1/2 mile at 3:50, 1/4 mile recovery, 1/2 mile at 3:50, 1/4 mile recovery, 1/2 mile at 3:50 and 1/2 mile cooldown for a total of 4 miles.

         

        Any thoughts on those interval sets?

         

        Thanks, Nathan

        Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

          Without claiming any expertise it would seem to me that those are  long intervals for 5k training- I would have thought 400s might be better to boost speed.

          I hope someone better informed will comment.

          PBs since age 60:  5k- 24:36, 10k - 47:17. Half Marathon- 1:42:41.

                                              10 miles (unofficial) 1:16:44.

           

             

            The second is a 5K on  October 13th that I do have a goal for, but I'm afraid it is too big of a goal.  I would like to break 24 minutes.  That probably sounds pretty slow to most of you, but the only mile that I have run under 8 minutes in the last 2 years was mile 13 of my half marathon.  I haven't done any speed work in 3 or 4 months so I'm not sure whether I have any shot at that at all.  Per McMillan's calculator if I plug in my half marathon from April 28th (which was an easy course and ideal conditions) it shows I should expect a 25:00 5K.  

             

             

            Thanks, Nathan

             

            Nathan

             

            Don't sell yourself short with your time goal just because a calculator gives you a number. When I ran my first HM 4/10, I finished just a touch faster then yours with a sub 1:55 time. A month later I ran the first leg of a duathlon (5k run, 40k bike, 5k run) in 23:50. I was not racing that 5k like I would have if it was just a 5k race without having a bike and another run folowing it. A month following the duathlon 6/10, I ran an open 5k in 22:27 which is my current 5k PR.

             

            With all the base training you have been doing over the summer, I think you'll smash your 5k goal if you have the mindset that a 5k race should hurt like hell and you should have nothing left after you cross the line.

             

            The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

             

            2014 Goals:

             

            Stay healthy

            Enjoy life

             

              Good point!  You are probably right on target. 

               

              I was leaning toward the longer intervals because I was planning on just doing them on my normal routes using my phone to tell me when to change up the pace when I hit the interval mark instead of going to the track.  I have a really good feel on my normal routes where the 1/2 mile marks are so I can focus on the "finish line" on those intervals.  I probably need to double check my splits on my 800m workout to make sure I can identify the splits on it with the 1/4 mile recoveries thrown in the mix. 

               

              The one time I ran 400m intervals it was pretty important for me to focus on the finish line to sustain my speed through the interval and I did that on a track with my wife there timing me.  If I need to work some of these in I can do it, it will just take more planning to get the workout in at a track.

               

              Of course I was probably running too fast if I had to focus on the "finish line" on my intervals so much the last time I did them.

              Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                Nathan

                 

                Don't sell yourself short with your time goal just because a calculator gives you a number. When I ran my first HM 4/10, I finished just a touch faster then yours with a sub 1:55 time. A month later I ran the first leg of a duathlon (5k run, 40k bike, 5k run) in 23:50. I was not racing that 5k like I would have if it was just a 5k race without having a bike and another run folowing it. A month following the duathlon 6/10, I ran an open 5k in 22:27 which is my current 5k PR.

                 

                With all the base training you have been doing over the summer, I think you'll smash your 5k goal if you have the mindset that a 5k race should hurt like hell and you should have nothing left after you cross the line.

                 

                Wait a second!  You're telling me a 5k race should hurt and I'll be wiped out at the finish line?  Maybe I need to rethink this! Big grin

                 

                Thanks for the input.  I do hope that I'll be able to break 24:00, it is just hard to get a real feel for where I'm at with no real racing under my belt and all the base training over the summer does make me feel good about my potential, but things vary so much with temperature, humidity, etc. that it is really hard to tell exactly where I'm at.  I almost want to go out and run 3 miles as hard as I can one morning just to see what that is right now.

                 

                Of course my long term running goal is to run my age in a 10k, but I think I still have at least another year or maybe two before I can get that one knocked out.

                Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                  For me, it helps to think of every race in percentage terms. Racing a 5k is just as hard as a marathon. Just everything happens really fast in the 5k. You have to make quick decisions based on how you feel. That said, nearly everybody, especially myself, start them way way too fast. The last 5k I raced (gosh, almost a year ago), there were several people ahead of me at the half mile point. In other words, they were faster than me for nearly 17% of the race. By the end, I was at least a full min. in front of the leader from this group. If you are racing, the first two-thirds (and especially the first quarter / half mile) should be done with your head. Its the last third that hurts like hell. 

                   

                  With the intervals, it would be tempting to do them without a watch or even knowing the distance. Just trying to run them based on effort would help. Just pick things up for a few blocks. Not hard, but faster than easy. Just trying that a few times. And, rest as long as you feel like before picking it up again. Dont even keep track of the number of times you do this.

                   

                  Of course the workouts you suggested look great. Just dont get wrapped up into the pace or distance or anything. 

                  Dont call it a comeback

                    Snuck in my first interval workout today since it was a beautiful overcast afternoon and I missed my workout this morning because it was raining.

                     

                    Did 1/2 mile warmup, then 1/2 mile shooting for an 8:00 pace then 1/4 mile cooldown then repeat.  I was only planning on doing 3 but decided to do one more after my 1/2 mile cooldown so that's why the slow fast part gets messed up at the end.

                     

                    It really was enjoyable to start doing something other than base training!

                     

                     

                    mi Pace (min/mi) Elevation (ft)
                         
                    1 8:56 10
                    2 8:55 -9
                    3 8:52 -2
                    4 9:18 3
                    5 12:08 0
                    Intervals Pace (min/mi) Elevation (ft)
                         
                    0.50 mi(slow) 9:54 1
                    0.50 mi(fast) 7:59 2
                    0.25 mi(slow) 9:54 -2
                    0.50 mi(fast) 7:43 3
                    0.25 mi(slow) 10:17 -3
                    0.50 mi(fast) 7:39 3
                    0.50 mi(slow) 10:05 -4
                    0.50 mi(slow) 7:57 0
                    0.50 mi(fast) 10:40 0
                    0.25 mi(slow) 12:26 0

                     

                    Overall I felt good about the workout.  Probably could have pushed it a bit harder, but am trying not to race my workouts. 

                    Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


                    Feeling the growl again

                      Nathan-  Good workout.  How did the last repeat feel?  You started well, accelerated the first three, then the fourth looked like you were hurting a bit.  I always tell people, if you run them so your first one is slowest and last one fastest you did about as good as you can do.

                       

                      Mile repeats are a bit on the long side if you are really focusing on the 5K.  However, if the 5K is only a stepping stone to the HM, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with working up that high.

                       

                      As for Parklife's comment that the 5K is as hard as the marathon.....I completely disagree.  Both are hard, but "hard" is defined in entirely different ways, and cannot be compared.  5Ks challenge your speed and lactate tolerance.  Marathons challenge your strength, overall endurance and mental fortitude.  Totally different beasts, to be respected on their own merits.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       

                        Thanks for the input.

                         

                        The last one was a throw in.  I was supposed to quit after the 1/2 mile cooldown, but then decided to run another fast interval about 10 yards after my phone told me it was time to slow down.  That's why it is a little slower. 

                         

                        I actually felt really good on the last one, especially since I had the much longer recovery before it.  If I had only had a 1/4 mile recovery before the 4th one it would have been tough.

                         

                        I was surprised that they got faster on 1 through 3 though.  I wasn't trying to run them faster and my phone didn't give me the final split on them until I got down with the workout. 

                        Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                          2nd attempt at intervals.  Stuck to the 800m with 400m recoveries, but planned for 4 this time.

                           

                          Intervals Pace (min/mi) Elevation (ft)
                               
                          1.00 mi(slow) 10:15 -15
                          0.50 mi(fast) 7:54 -2
                          0.25 mi(slow) 9:59 -0
                          0.50 mi(fast) 7:24 -0
                          0.25 mi(slow) 9:39 -10
                          0.50 mi(fast) 9:00 14
                          0.25 mi(slow) 9:48 -6
                          0.50 mi(fast) 7:47 5
                          0.50 mi(slow) 10:23 -2
                          1.00 mi(slow) 10:13 18

                           

                          Was running in Washington DC and was very different from one of my normal routes.  I had to stop for a traffic signal on the 3rd interval and I just left my clock running instead of pausing it.  Looking back at the graph it looks like it was about 30 seconds which would correlate to a 8:00 pace instead of a 9:00 pace on that if you take out the wait time.  Didn't mean to go so fast on the 2nd interval, not sure what happened there, that's faster than my goal 5k pace, but I didn't feel like I was pushing it at all when I was running it.  Felt good on all of them, could have probably done another if I had to. 

                           

                          I think I'm going to do a tempo run or some mile repeats this week just to break things up.  I also am thinking about adding some strides or some skipping to some of my shorter low heart rate runs this week.  My 10k race is coming up in 2 weeks.

                          Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


                          day after day sameness

                             

                            I think I'm going to do a tempo run or some mile repeats this week just to break things up.  I also am thinking about adding some strides or some skipping to some of my shorter low heart rate runs this week.  My 10k race is coming up in 2 weeks.

                             

                            Mixing interval, tempo and hills as your quality work can give you a nice break from routine.  Tempo (steady state) and Interval are good buddies, they should meet often in your training. 

                            Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless

                              First tempo run in a LONG time. Beautiful evening! 80 degrees, 25% humidity, DP 42, wind E at 9 mph. 1 mile warm up then shooting for 4 miles at 8:30 pace then 1 mile cool down. The interval settings on my phone went haywire somehow, (operator error) so I wasn't really sure what my splits were until I got back to the house and looked at them on the computer, but I knew they were better than 8:30.

                               

                              Kept my HR under 180 the whole time. Under 170 the first 3 miles of the tempo section. Overall avg pace 8:58, overall avg HR 158. Very good workout. 

                               

                              Here's my splits.

                               

                               

                              Splits (GPS Interval)
                               TypeDistance Split settingsDurationTotal DurationPaceAvg HRMax HRNotes
                              1 Manual 1 mi 10:01 10:01 10:01 141 153  
                              2 Manual 1 mi 8:24.74 18:25.74 8:25 157 161  
                              3 Manual 1 mi 8:20.45 26:46.19 8:21 161 169  
                              4 Manual 1 mi 8:19.27 35:05.46 8:20 166 169  
                              5 Manual 1 mi 8:03.43 43:08.89 8:04 174 179  
                              6 Manual 1 mi 10:27.22 53:36.11 10:28 153 177  
                              7 Manual 0.02 mi 0:12.9 53:49.01 10:45 154 154


                              That last mile of the tempo was a little tough, but it gained 30 feet of elevation on top of being mile 4 of the tempo section. 

                               

                              My max HR is 194 so my Avg HR went from 81% on the first mile of the tempo to 90% on the last mile of the tempo.

                               

                              Based on anecdotal guessing I've always thought my lactate threshold was somewhere around 175 so I did go over it there at the end of the tempo, not sure if that is right or not.

                               

                              Felt like a really good workout though.

                              Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27

                                I think you tan a great progressive tempo run. It felt somewhat tough but not killer. This is how a tempo is suppose to feel. All too often people will race or run their sustained tempo runs too hard. It is a work out, not a race. Perfect run! Great job!

                                Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

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