RunningAHEAD - Topic: Are my tempo runs too fast--or am I racing too slow?

twinmomrunner

posted: 2/14/2008 at 12:03 PM

I have run the first couple of tempo runs on my training plan, and they are meaningfully faster than my 15k race results indicate. I'm doing Pfitz 18/70 (actually a slightly reduced version--more like 18/67). My recent 15k time was 1:18:18, for a pace of 8:25. There were no chips, and a bit of hill, but still and all I felt my time was a pretty fair indication of my fitness. So I aimed to run my tempo runs at 8:25, but they've actually come in at around 8:05. I've still been able to finish my runs ok (today was a 10 miler, with 5 miles at tempo pace), and I've been able to do a medium long run the next day ok. Should I slow down my tempos? I am actually thrilled to be having this problem, because for last year's marathon I wasn't able to maintain an 8:30 tempo pace in training. I guess Pfitz knows what he's doing!

Jim2

posted: 2/14/2008 at 12:41 PM

Tempo training should be at the pace that you can race for about an hour. Based on your 15k time of 1:18:18 (8:25 pace), runing calculators project a 10k time of about 50:30 or a pace of 8:07. An hour would fall between them....about 11.5-12k and a pace of about 8:15. But criteria such as this are guidelines, not absolutes. Pace guidelines provided by running calculators and similar sources are just a simple method to approximate training intensities, which are determined by lab tests that measure O2 utilization and blood lactate accumulation as a function of heart rate. And associated paces are based on the "average" conditioned runner. But each of us is an individual and may deviate from the average in several ways, such as level of conditioning, genetics, racing intensity, etc. Get the training intensity right and don't obbess over the specific pace....use it as a cross check to ensure that you are in the right training range. Also, pace at a given intensity can vary with conditions, such as weather, personal stress, amount of rest that you have had, etc. As long as a tempo run is "comfortably hard" and you feel that you could have continued for another mile or so when it ends, then they are in the right training range and I wouldn't worry about the pace.

jEfFgObLuE

I've got a fever...

posted: 2/14/2008 at 12:50 PM
modified: 2/14/2008 at 12:58 PM

Daniels' VDOT calculator gives a tempo pace of 8:20, based on your 15km time. A lot of discussion about tempo pace in this thread. The upshot is that Daniels thinks that you should adjust your T-pace slower for tempo runs longer than 20 minutes. So you're really cruising in the case of 5 miles @ 8:05. That being said, you need to go by feel. As long as a hard, extended tempo effort doesn't leave your body depleted, I think it's fine. Jim2 hit it on the head with "comfortably hard." When you're done, you should fwwl like you could do more, but be glad that you don't have to. MTA: To answer your original question, it's possible your 15k was slow. Your 8:05 tempo pace is the same pace that you would theoretically race 5mi/8k at (based on your 15k time). I imagine your probably didn't feel like you just finished an all-out 5mi race on your tempo run. One way to know for sure would be to race a 10k. Tempo pace is 10~15 sec/mile slower than 10k pace.

On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office. But you will wish that you'd spent more time running. Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

twinmomrunner

posted: 2/14/2008 at 9:54 PM

Thank you both. When I finished my tempo, I was damn glad it was over--but then again I did run another 2 miles to get home. So I think that fits the bill for "fee like you could do more, but be glad that you don't have to." Maybe I'm fitter than I think, at least on a reasonably flat course. Fingers crossed that that carries over to my marathon.

Jim2

posted: 2/15/2008 at 12:25 AM

Quote from twinmomrunner on 2/14/2008 at 9:54 PM:

Thank you both. When I finished my tempo, I was damn glad it was over--but then again I did run another 2 miles to get home. So I think that fits the bill for "fee like you could do more, but be glad that you don't have to." Maybe I'm fitter than I think, at least on a reasonably flat course. Fingers crossed that that carries over to my marathon.

The criteria is that you should feel that you could do more at the same tempo pace, not just run a couple of miles at a slower pace to get back home. If you couldn't continue for another mile or so at tempo pace, then the pace was too fast....it was essentially a race effort.

twinmomrunner

posted: 2/15/2008 at 7:45 AM

Thanks Jim2. I think I could have done another mile (and will find out for sure during my next tempo--scheduled for 6 miles). I am not so sure about 2 miles, which is the scheduled one after that. I guess I'll just go for the description you guys provided, and let the numbers work themselves out.

Tchuck

SMART Approach

posted: 2/15/2008 at 8:57 AM

TwinMomRunner I think the best way to determine your proper pace is to do a 5K race. You are just not sure right now what your fitness is. Your fast tempo (20-25 min) pace would be around 25-30 sec slower than race pace. Your long tempo pace (40-50 min) would be more like 50-60 sec. slower than 5K race pace. When in doubt, run the slower tempo pace. It should not feel race like. If you do 6 miles at fast tempo (it will be a race). A tempo should not fry you. Races should fry you. Training is training, racing is racing. With all that being said, tempos should also be run by feel or effort. Most experienced runners will just know what is fast tempo effort and what is slow tempo effort. Because of heat, wind, snow, cold, extra clothes etc., we can't alway maintain the exact pace so we need to go by feel in many cases.

Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

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www.smartapproachtraining.com

twinmomrunner

posted: 2/15/2008 at 3:46 PM

Thanks Tchuck. I always appreciate your advice! It sounds like I may be running to fast. I wasn't fried, but I am pretty sure I couldn't race a 5k at 7:15 pace. Just to support that conclusion...My shins are sore today--so I probably did overdo it. THanks. -Twinmomrunner

Are my tempo runs too fast--or am I racing too slow? (Read 1522 times)