Flu shot heresy (Read 2152 times)


Imminent Catastrophe

    I heard a passing report on the radio that H1N1 may have mutated into a more deadly form. Have you heard anything like that?

    BTW I tried to get my seasonal flu vaccine, there's none to be had. 

    "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

     "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

    "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

     

    √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

    Boston Marathon 21 April 2014

    Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 19/20 July 2014


    Old, Slow, Happy

      The influenza vaccine in current use has been tested in many many RCTs over the years.

       

      LR, why did you put outbreak in quotes?  You think the governments of the world are lying to us, and that those deaths and reports of all the sick people are just being made up?  To what end?

       

      I have never been in a car accident.  Yet I wear my seatbelt for every ride.  It is proven safe and effective.  And while I try to drive safely, I know it is still possible to get into a crash.

       

      Trent:  First, I want to say that I respect your opinions and the way you communicate them here at RA.  I carefully read everything you write that pertains to me and often (almost always) follow what you say. 

       

      I put outbreak in quotes because I don't remember if there was an outbreak or not.  I was in college then so it was 30+ years ago.  My opinion is that the vaccinations do not appreciably reduce the incidences of flu of any kind.  This opinion is formed by my own stubborn attitude and not from any significant knowledge.  You can find information for both sides of any issue.  I choose to ignore the vaccination side and believe the opposite.  It goes more to my contrary nature than to anything else.  I do think the governments lie to us about many things.  I don't deny the death and sick people reports.  It's just my opinion that the deaths and sickness is not worse than it would be without the vaccine.  The vaccine that I got in college caused Guillaume Barre Syndrome in some people including two people that I knew.  One of them never recovered.  I'm not sure things are as safe as the government tells us. 

       

      Disclaimer:  I am not advocating that people should follow my actions, only that I am doing what I feel is right for me.

       

      Also, I always wear my seatbelt too.


      A Dance with Monkeys

        PerfesserR, I heard that on a passing news story as well, but nothing from medical folks.  I wondered if it was a confused reporter, but I am listening for it extra hard now.


        A Dance with Monkeys


          I put outbreak in quotes because I don't remember if there was an outbreak or not.  I was in college then so it was 30+ years ago.

           

          Excellent, this makes sense.

           

          I agree with free will, and you are fine to avoid the vaccine.  That is your choice.  Labrat , for example, does not get the same choice.  She can put other people at risk by not vaccinating herself, whereas you are less likely to do it.  If H1N1 were more consistently fatal, then you may not get the same free will since infection control will be a much more important issue.


          Hey, nice marmot!

             

            I am not sure what you mean about your midwest example. I rarely give credence to headlines.  Death and illness statistics are also available from less drama-inducing sources.

             

            Well, you are a bit... unusual.  Most people get their "news" from CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, etc. and most people do respond to headlines.  If the media portrays something as a "big deal", then generally most people will see it as such.  If the media downplays or ignores something completely, then so will most people.  Most people do not take it upon themselves to look up the actual numbers and form opinions from them (although it would be better if more people did).

             

            For instance,

            Death of Michael Jackson = big deal

            Result:  Countless stories, articles, etc. on MJ's life, death, family, etc.  Pretty much non-stop Jacko for, what was it, weeks?  Massive crowds assembled to pay tribute to his star in Hollywood, hold vigils, and stand around and stare at the coliseum during his funeral.

             

            State-sponsored genocide against Africans in the Darfur region of Sudan = no big deal

            Result:  Minimal to non-existant coverage.  When it is mentioned, it's downplayed as "just more violence in Africa".  No massive crowds.  No one cares.  No big deal.

             

            Now, I suppose if Michael Jackson had been killed by the Sudanese government, then maybe...  

            Ben

             

            "The world is my country, science is my religion."-- Christiaan Huygens


            Imminent Catastrophe

              I believe that's what happened in the 1918 pandemic, the first wave was highly contagious but not so deadly. It then mutated into a strain which killed about 100 million people.

              The trouble with people not getting the vaccine is that it doesn't just affect them, it affects everyone. That pisses me off.

              "Able to function despite imminent catastrophe"

               "To obtain the air that angels breathe you must come to Tahoe"--Mark Twain

              "The most common question from potential entrants is 'I do not know if I can do this' to which I usually answer, 'that's the whole point'.--Paul Charteris, Tarawera Ultramarathon RD.

               

              √ Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 20/21 July 2013

              Boston Marathon 21 April 2014

              Tahoe Rim Trail 100M 19/20 July 2014


              A Dance with Monkeys

                Well, you are a bit... unusual.

                 

                A truer truth has never been uttered.

                   

                  A truer truth has never been uttered.

                   heh - at least you are honest about the truer truth


                  Best Present Ever

                    PerfesserR, I heard that on a passing news story as well, but nothing from medical folks.  I wondered if it was a confused reporter, but I am listening for it extra hard now.

                     I haven't heard anything from public health sources either.  I have heard that deaths are up in kids over what would be expected with usual seasonal ful and can imagine that a reporter would start speculating based on that.  The problem is that we don't yet know what the infection rate is.  It's plausible that the infection rate is much higher than usual, which would explain at least some of the excess deaths. It doesn't change that the absolute number is increased, which is a bad thing whether or not it means that the actual rate is up.  I'm very eager to get my kids vaccinated no matter what. 

                      Trent, thanks for all the information you provide.  I have NO sympathy for my friends who are wavering about whether to get their kids vaccinated.  I'm not usually the confrontational type, but I give them a piece of my mind!  Our school's clinic is on November 4.  Maine has received only 35,000 doses of vaccine, so I hope more comes soon.


                      A Dance with Monkeys

                        You can find information for both sides of any issue.  I choose to ignore the vaccination side and believe the opposite.  It goes more to my contrary nature than to anything else.  I do think the governments lie to us about many things.

                         

                        Yes, but much of the information on one side is from empiric research and much of the information on the other side is from anecdote and opinion. Chose your information wisely, not just based on being a contrarian. And remember, fundamental to science and research is skepticism and contrarianism; science is about testing hypotheses until you have enough evidence to hold it as true. And listen to the science, not the government (which, in this particular case, is parroting the science but does not always).


                        Needs more cowbell!

                          H1N1 is ALL over our county and general area and has been for about a week (several schools have closed for this entire week).  I'm not even sure the vax is available widely, yet.  As it takes 10-14 days to even be effective I'm wondering if it's still worth trying to get.  My concern is paying for the shot when it's likely we will end up sick, anyhow.  My kid has a knack for bringing bugs home with him. Tongue

                          I shoot pretty things! ~

                          '14 Goals:

                          • 6 duathlons (1 Olympic distance)

                          • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


                          day after day sameness

                            Two flu-shot articles in today's Wired (tech and science focus) web site that I found interesting:

                             

                            About risks created by panicked parents skipping kid's shots

                            H1N1, 3 Fears Debunked

                             

                            Choosing my words carefully has never been my strength I've been known to be vague and often pointless


                            The Crap Whisperer

                              I saw something on Good Morning America about NOT giving acetaminophen right before or after getting the H1N1 vaccine. Something about it reducing its effectiveness.  Is this good info?

                               

                              DD's school is giving them free but I found out yesterday that the date has been pushed out to Nov. 14th cause they can't get the vaccine until then. This is a bit worrisome...

                              Being the best tiny spec that I can be!