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| BASEBUILDING AEROBIC (Read 1039 times) |
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posted: 4/26/2008 at 4:37 PM |
I think, or at least am prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, that the OP is attempting to discuss a complex and technical subject in a language he or she was not brought up speaking.
I can't follow it myself, but I think we owe hom or her the same courtesy we owe anyone who posts here. Simon. |
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posted: 4/26/2008 at 4:38 PM
modified: 4/26/2008 at 4:40 PM |
| Want Speed? Slow Down! Article on RRCA web site. .After five years of nagging injuries I am willing to try almost anything. I just purchased a heart monitor. I am going to give it the six month test with no anaerobic exercise. www.rrca.org |
Run until the trail runs out
2008 TARGET 150 MONTH
2009 TARGET 40/40 |
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| view log 27 weeks up duff! |
posted: 4/26/2008 at 6:31 PM |
| Quote from SimonR on 4/26/2008 at 4:37 PM: I think, or at least am prepared to give the benefit of the doubt, that the OP is attempting to discuss a complex and technical subject in a language he or she was not brought up speaking.
I can't follow it myself, but I think we owe hom or her the same courtesy we owe anyone who posts here. Simon.
Which is great, because when he puts what I said through the same language translator - what he read was...
I am love in with the explicable percentage trousers
To it markedly concept.
Which!
So really we could have said anything at all. |
| jlynnbob "HTFU, Kookie's distal tibia"
Where's my closet? I need to get back in it. |
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| view log Running Partner |
posted: 4/27/2008 at 1:25 PM |
stryvynsky -
OK - I reread the post and I think to summarize you are saying that brief high intensity training is better than solely aerobic training. This seems supported by the referenced research.
I'm not a researcher or physiologist just a simple runner that currently subscribes/is trying LHR via Mafetone method. What I have found is that the underlying prinicple if the ability to build a base and reamin un-injured. Once you build a base you add anaerobic training to help improve performance and or speed. From my point of view, HT is risky for people like me due to the increased probability of injury which eliminates all training and any improvements gained will be short lived.
From a clinical or theoretical basis, HT might be correct but with me the non-elite or average at best runner, LHR seems to provide a venue for improvement without the higher injury risks. It may take longer, but its worth it.
I can only revert to the writings of Mafetone, Van Aaken and Mark Allen to support my opinions. If I misread or didn't understand your point, perhaps we can try again. You will find that this is an edgy group but very willing to share once engaged.
I would suggest visiting the LHR group and asking questions there as they are the "experts" and would be better suited to the debate. |
Illegitimis non carborundum
2008 goals:
1) run a fall marathon (Indy)
2) stay injury free
3) PR 5K, 10K, HM & M
4) get my kids to start running with me
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posted: 4/27/2008 at 1:37 PM |
Hold on just a second. This is the Russian version of Richard Gibbens and his foolish powerrunning. Go to Letsrun.com, that's where Richard lives now. He doesn't speak English very well either.
In the meantime, I has Ovechkin prischl valuable to the massive wunderkind Fedorov and Anna woowoo no mas Pavel uncle likey me wodka. Yum. |
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| view log Jazz, happy dog |
posted: 4/27/2008 at 11:28 PM |
| Splunge. |
| Just 'cause you can, doesn't mean you should
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| view log Monkey Scratch |
posted: 4/27/2008 at 11:36 PM |
| This was such a useful thread until Hefty took a dump in it. |
all you touch and all you see, is all your life will ever be
Obesity is a disease. Yes, a disease where nothing tastes bad...except salads. |
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posted: 4/28/2008 at 4:38 AM |
http://www.arthurdevany.com/everything/
I note this insight in a comment by Tuesday. I knew this and yet had not tied it together this clearly. It is regarding the Ancestors as Runners post of a few days ago where we discussed the mixture of continuous running, walking or trekking, and sprinting. I had argued that the distribution of these activities would have been more concentrated on walking, possibly at a high pace, and sprinting. Continuous running would also have been done for some periods. In fact, in my Essay, I argued that monitoring of wild animals and fish has been used to show that the distribution of these mixtures of activities follows a power law, to a good approximation. Now Tuesday puts this together nicely to make this argument:
"I know I've seen a study on the subject, though I can't seem to find it at the moment. Because walking and running/sprinting are more efficient gaits than jogging, they can be sustained for longer periods before complete rest is required, so over long periods of time (days/weeks) a walk-run pace does indeed cover more distance than a continuous pace."
I have seen the studies too, and have posted on some of them in the past, though I can't take the time now to find them. But, the point is that this mixture, with some time in the continuous mode, is likely to be more energy efficient. Why didn't I put it this way?
Further evidence comes from studies of intermittent versus continuous exercise and there the verdict is that a human can do a lot more work if done intermittently than if done continuously. Or, put another way, you can do a lot more work in a given period of time if the work is done in an intermittent fashion. This gain in time versus energy expenditure efficiency, as you know by now, is one reason Evolutionary Fitness makes use of intermittency in eating and energy expenditure. I think it is the ancestral pattern too, as this evolving discussion seems to indicate.
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posted: 4/28/2008 at 6:06 PM |
Quote from Hefty on 4/28/2008 at 4:38 AM:
This isn't about doing a lot more work. It's about racing faster. You can walk if you want...I might stick around at the finish line to see how you do, but instead I'll hit the food tables and avoid the crowd. |
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| view log Frustrating Project |
posted: 4/28/2008 at 7:14 PM |
Quote from zoom-zoom on 4/26/2008 at 4:01 PM:Quote from Econo on 4/26/2008 at 3:01 PM:refrigerator Is yours running? You'd better go catch it! 
*rimshot*
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20th Century: 800m: 2:04 |1600m: 4:37 |3200m: 10:06 |5k: 16:23 |10k: 35:38 |15k: 54:20 25k: 1:35:59
21st Century: 5k: 19:42 |10k: 43:00
"Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly, and they use too much vermouth." Steve Allen |
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posted: 4/30/2008 at 6:17 AM
modified: 4/30/2008 at 6:19 AM |
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2007-08/uoc-sbm082207.php
Soccer burns more fat than jogging
The experiment Sports scientist Peter Krustrup and his colleagues from the University of Copenhagen, the Copenhagen University Hospital and Bispebjerg Hospital have followed a soccer team consisting of 14 untrained men aged 20 to 40 years.
For a period of 3 months, the players have been subjected to a number of tests such as fitness ratings, total mass of muscles, percentage of fat, blood pressure, insulin sensitivity and balance.
Surprising results - 2-3 weekly rounds of soccer practise, of the duration of app. 1 hour, released massive health and training benefits. Their percentage of fat went down, the total mass of muscle went up, their blood pressure fell and their fitness ratings improved significantly. Everything we tested improved, says Peter Krustrup.
In parallel with the soccer-experiment, the research group did the same tests on a group of joggers as well as on a passive control group. The joggers also trained 2-3 times a week, but their efforts showed smaller effect than that of the soccer players.
- It is healthy to run long distances in a moderate speed, but the results show that soccer practise is better in a number of ways. The improvement in fitness rating and the increase in total muscle mass were greater in the soccer players, and during the last 8 weeks of the experiment, only the soccer-players showed any improvement, Peter Krustrup says.
After 12 weeks, the soccer players had lost 3.5 kilos of fat and gained more than 2 kilos of extra muscle mass, whereas the joggers had lost 2 kilos of fat and showed no change in total muscle mass. Both groups showed significant improvements in blood pressure, insulin sensitivity and balance.
The sports scientist believes that it is the shifts between walking, running and sprinting that causes the soccer players to experience better health improvements.
- I think that is part of the secret. Soccer is an all-round form of practise because it both keeps the pulse up and has many high-intensity actions. When you sprint, jump and tackle your opponents, you use all the fibres in your muscles. When you jog at a moderate pace, you only use the slow fibres, says Peter Krustrup.
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| view log Running Partner |
posted: 4/30/2008 at 12:32 PM |
| What's your point Hefty? Just trolling again. As a former footballer, I would agree but WTF and who cares. I'm sure wrestlers lose more weight than runners too. At least give the courtesy of posting a position or some semblance of cognitive initiative so this might spur a useful discussion. Sheesh! |
Illegitimis non carborundum
2008 goals:
1) run a fall marathon (Indy)
2) stay injury free
3) PR 5K, 10K, HM & M
4) get my kids to start running with me
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posted: 4/30/2008 at 12:39 PM |
It's a waste of time to respond to people Hefty or Richard but here goes...
I don't know what's so "surprising" about this so-called "new" finding (Richard might call it "a revolutionary descovery"); joggers who train "2~3 times a week" would most likely be 10~12 minute mile type of guys. Unless you're talking about soccer practice of senior people, you would mos likely sprinting here and there, jumping up and down...engaging in actions much more anaerobic in nature which requires much more energy. Any coach or experienced runner/jogger can tell you that. It is a total waste of money to keep those people who did such "study" and call it "surprising" employed. It's like Richard saying "...to our total surprise, exercise physiologist so-and-so found out that people use muscles to run (therefore, muscles are more important than oxygen)!!!"
I see Hefty is desperately trying to discourage others from running/jogging. But I really really hope people use a little more common sense when they read "research" like this whenever he post such article without making any "point". But I'd summarize his recent points for him:
* Running can cause heart attack. * While running 30~45 minutes a day can be good for you, running an hour a day can kill you. * Soccer is much better activity than jogging.
Many people might view activities like soccer as "more fun" than running. Sure, at PE, when teachers are gone, you'd get the ball out and play basketball or throw football or chase soccer ball. But when the teacher are present and you make some mistakes, then he/she would have you "run around laps" for punishment. You develop "dislike" attitude toward a boring activity like running. Then years gone by (well, it doesn't have to...); you've been in the real world, working in the office day in and day out, you're out of shape and it's an "exercise" to walk from your car to the entrance... When family got together and played a flag football in the park, you could hardly breathe because you're so out of shape (such state that it's hard to imagine playing soccer!)... Then you re-discover running. You're moving so slow but you are moving...forward, step by step. And you feel a sense of freedom like the guy in "Loneliness of Distance Runner" did. You want to continue running and want to know more about running.....and you run into Hefty; who does nothing but feed negative thoughts about running into people; who, for some reason, likes to come to RUNNING message board and post every single articles AGAINST running, without any comment or question, just post them, anc claim he "just wants to know..." Then he'd turn around with this victim attitude and says, "I don't understand why people get mad..." I happened to love running. And I actually feel like my family or loved one being mocked about. Don't you? |
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posted: 4/30/2008 at 12:44 PM
modified: 4/30/2008 at 12:57 PM |
http://www.chiarunning/trolls
ABSTRACT: The longitudinal multi-variate double-blind study, originally commissioned by the National Board for Erectile Dysfunction Awareness in 1974, was conducted at the University of Michigan by Dr. James T. Dilligaf. Funded by several major pharmaceutical companies, the research was designed to explore possible links between sociopathic/anti-social behavior, behavior modification techniques for addressing behavioral abnormalities, and psychological conditions related to penile size and/or psychiatric conditions of obsession over inadequacy, insecurity, and lower than average masculinity, all presenting as attentions seeking behaviors.
Over the course of the 30 year study, more than 20,000 voluntary participants were observed for the relevant behaviors, specifically presenting as insecurity, self-loathing, and attention-seeking, as described in the DSM-IV and measured via the Dilligaf-quotient XL-2000 scale. Subjects were tracked throughout the course of the study period with modifications to observational techniques utilized to maintain parity with technological advances. Specifically, while early observations were conducted in singles bars, swingers clubs, and herpes clinics, since approximately 1996 most of the observational data has been collected via the Internet, primarily through passive analysis of web-based message boards. The anonymity of cyberspace has the dual advantage of permitting perceived anonymity for both subjects and researchers; moreover, the phenomenon of the "troll" has allowed researchers to more narrowly tailor their choice of subjects, as these trolls most clearly exhibit the relevant behaviors of insecurity and inadequacy, as well as the universally accompanying conditions of penile size inferiority.
Preliminary analysis suggests several tentative conclusions. First, the Internet "troll" is apparently the modern descendant of the circa 1975 singles bar lounge lizard who talked a lot of smack but could never get any. Second, a significantly higher than average percentage of Internet trolls are serial killers, closet Tom Cruise fans, and/or possess extensive collections of show tune albums. Third, the single defining characteristic of all trolls, without exception, is a conjoined pattern of sociopathic personality disorder coupled with hyper-narcissism and a desperate need for attention. Also, trolls have itty bitty tally whackers.
Despite the fact that this universal troll condition (IBTW) seems to support early hypotheses and marketing research suggesting that male enhancement is desperately needed by this subject group, the aforementioned major pharmaceutical companies denied Dr. Dilligaf's requests for additional funding for continued research.
Because nobody gives a flying @#$% about trolls.
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E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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Just Be |
posted: 4/30/2008 at 1:41 PM |
I think Mr. T can summarize this thread up nicely:
Don't do school, brush your milk, do drugs, and drink your teeth! |
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