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"ideal" weight - fact or fiction? (Read 2546 times)

DoppleBock


    Funny mine had me at .315% alchohol

     

     

    Drunk test had me at 5-7% body fat. 

     

     

    I guess the point I was trying to make is same as most here -

     

    I think of it as in auto racing - You have the size of your engine, the efficiency of your transmission and car set up and the weight of your vehicle.  At a 19 minute 5k and your lighter weight - I would put all my energy into increasing the size of my engine and the efficiency of my stride.  Most likely increasing the size of your engine will put a little weight on.  I have no idea of the efficiency of your stride, but I would always suggest doing form drills.

     

    If you were running a 14:57 or even a 15:57 at your age, then I might be trying to tweak weight - But build yourself a big nasty engine!

    http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

    2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

     

      runnerdave: I assumed that you were interested in performance, and that's the perspective from which I was writing. Cheers!

        runnerdave: I assumed that you were interested in performance, and that's the perspective from which I was writing. Cheers!

         

        And those were exactly my goals. Thanks! Smile

         

        I've taken a good 2-3 min. off my times in the past several months, but I think that I've pretty much obtained all the "low-hanging" fruit

        so to speak... from here on out,  I will just up my mileage/tempo run intensity and see how it goes.

          And those were exactly my goals. Thanks! Smile

           

          I've taken a good 2-3 min. off my times in the past several months, but I think that I've pretty much obtained all the "low-hanging" fruit

          so to speak... from here on out,  I will just up my mileage/tempo run intensity and see how it goes.

           

          Patience, grasshopper. It's true that your time drops quickly at the beginning, but if you are willing to look at a 3-4 year window, there is a lot more low-hanging fruit as you develop aerobically and as you get more physically mature.

           

          Listen to your coach, stay consistent, compete with your teammates, and work patiently through the plateaus and rough spots. You may be surprised to find quite a runner within. I don't know how much faster you will get, as everyone has a different ceiling, but I can guarantee that you will get a lot faster if you stick with it.

            Patience, grasshopper. It's true that your time drops quickly at the beginning, but if you are willing to look at a 3-4 year window, there is a lot more low-hanging fruit as you develop aerobically and as you get more physically mature.

             

            Listen to your coach, stay consistent, compete with your teammates, and work patiently through the plateaus and rough spots. You may be surprised to find quite a runner within. I don't know how much faster you will get, as everyone has a different ceiling, but I can guarantee that you will get a lot faster if you stick with it.

             +1

            “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman


            Feeling the growl again

               I will just up my mileage/tempo run intensity and see how it goes.

               

              A tempo run should not really be more intense for a 15:00 5Ker than a 20:00 5Ker.  It will just be faster.

               

              Improving is not really about working out more intensely, but making improvements that will make you fitter.  In general, working out more intensely may actually make you slower in the long term.

               

              You should focus on consistency and continuing to run more miles as time goes by.  This will build your engine and make you faster.  When I was your age, I went from 19:20 to 17:24 in one year.  I didn't do it by running more intensely, I did it by running twice as much at an easier pace with more tempo work thrown in during the summer.

               

              As for weight....if you feel tired or in any ways bad when you get lighter, DON'T DO IT.  Any calculation is only a guesstimate.  If you are in tune with yourself to know when your weight is getting too low to handle training load, then good for you.  I'm 5' 10" and was ~155lbs up through the middle of college.  I did get much faster as I dropped into the 140s.  However I found that if I spent much time below 147, or if I spent any time at all below 145, my training went to pot or I went into actual overtraining.  I train well 147-150....I managed to run a great 10K right at 145 but things went in the toilet immediately after.  I've never been able to make it through a marathon taper and toe the line for a long race under 149.

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               

              heather85


                Okay, so in Racing Weight, Fitzgerald recommends time trials as you lose weight and if it starts to suffer, gain back to where the best times were.  This might be tough for someone still growing though, because it will be changing over time.

                 

                If your performance decreases at a weight, though, it is obviously not the best weight for you to be... Even if it is the average (read some lighter and some heavier) of the best, or if it is the weight if someone could create the perfect middle distance runner in the lab with the right proportions and height and weight.  None of that really matters if YOUR performance suffers going lower.  I think, just for running, (not health or aesthetics) the ideal is to go as light as you can without having a drop in performance.  As a growing runner, I think it especially behooves you to worry a lot more about performance in other regards and not about dropping weight. 

                   

                  Improving is not really about working out more intensely, but making improvements that will make you fitter.  In general, working out more intensely may actually make you slower in the long term.

                   

                  You should focus on consistency and continuing to run more miles as time goes by.  This will build your engine and make you faster.  When I was your age, I went from 19:20 to 17:24 in one year.  I didn't do it by running more intensely, I did it by running twice as much at an easier pace with more tempo work thrown in during the summer.

                   

                   

                  Which reminds me :

                  http://www.letsrun.com/2006/collegesuck.php

                    Dave, don't forget that if you don't eat enough, you may find yourself falling asleep on your books, literally.  

                    "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


                    Feeling the growl again

                      Okay, so in Racing Weight, Fitzgerald recommends time trials as you lose weight and if it starts to suffer, gain back to where the best times were.  This might be tough for someone still growing though, because it will be changing over time.

                       

                       

                      Also, it's not just about performance but recovery.  You may perform great....rested up for a time trial or race effort...but be suffering to keep the frequency/intensity of workouts as you used to.  It's better to pick up on the recovery issues than to wait for the effects to show up in maximal efforts....the lower weight will continue to help your hard efforts even as you're really about to tip into chronic fatigue or over-training.

                       

                      In my prior example with running a great 10K at 145 lbs, in retrospect it is clear that for two weeks prior to that race I had been consistently struggling with my workouts.  However when I fully rested for a race I did awesome.  Then I did just one more very hard workout after that race....boom....done.  Over the line.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       

                        Also, it's not just about performance but recovery.  You may perform great....rested up for a time trial or race effort...but be suffering to keep the frequency/intensity of workouts as you used to.  It's better to pick up on the recovery issues than to wait for the effects to show up in maximal efforts....the lower weight will continue to help your hard efforts even as you're really about to tip into chronic fatigue or over-training.

                         

                        In my prior example with running a great 10K at 145 lbs, in retrospect it is clear that for two weeks prior to that race I had been consistently struggling with my workouts.  However when I fully rested for a race I did awesome.  Then I did just one more very hard workout after that race....boom....done.  Over the line.

                         

                        Yeah, and also, can any one of us pin down one non-running factor that contributes to a bad workout (e.g., time trial)?  The person you bring to one workout you may have slept better, ate better, and been less stressed.  

                        "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus


                        Feeling the growl again

                          Yeah, and also, can any one of us pin down one non-running factor that contributes to a bad workout (e.g., time trial)?  The person you bring to one workout you may have slept better, ate better, and been less stressed.  

                           

                          I never worry about a single workout.  We all have our days.  It's trends that concern me.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

                            A tempo run should not really be more intense for a 15:00 5Ker than a 20:00 5Ker.  It will just be faster.

                             

                            Improving is not really about working out more intensely, but making improvements that will make you fitter.  In general, working out more intensely may actually make you slower in the long term.

                             

                            You should focus on consistency and continuing to run more miles as time goes by.  This will build your engine and make you faster.  When I was your age, I went from 19:20 to 17:24 in one year.  I didn't do it by running more intensely, I did it by running twice as much at an easier pace with more tempo work thrown in during the summer.

                             

                            As for weight....if you feel tired or in any ways bad when you get lighter, DON'T DO IT.  Any calculation is only a guesstimate.  If you are in tune with yourself to know when your weight is getting too low to handle training load, then good for you.  I'm 5' 10" and was ~155lbs up through the middle of college.  I did get much faster as I dropped into the 140s.  However I found that if I spent much time below 147, or if I spent any time at all below 145, my training went to pot or I went into actual overtraining.  I train well 147-150....I managed to run a great 10K right at 145 but things went in the toilet immediately after.  I've never been able to make it through a marathon taper and toe the line for a long race under 149.

                             

                            Thanks - those are some very interesting insights (the parts about workout intensity/frequency). Again, I am a slower 5K'er (19:45-20:00), so

                            I don't know if the following is valid, but.....I can say that the PRs I set in the past have been usually precipitated by noticeable periods of consistent training - not necessarily "harder." I run faster now than I did a few months ago, for 5 and 10Ks, but I don't feel as if I am necessarily working harder. Make of that what you will.

                              Today was the end of a 10-day streak of 70 miles, and I recently logged my first 40+ mile week, which I think is about all I can handle

                              right now (I was left stiff and sore from the harder runs.) In regard to this thread's topic, is it possible that a weight gain in muscle 

                              could allow me to handle this mileage more regularly?

                               

                              What I'm trying to say is that I have thus far found that the lighter I am, the more "delicate" I am in terms of training volume. At 110 lbs, a 25 mile week might leave me feeling exhausted and needing recuperation.

                                Today was the end of a 10-day streak of 70 miles, and I recently logged my first 40+ mile week, which I think is about all I can handle

                                right now (I was left stiff and sore from the harder runs.) In regard to this thread's topic, is it possible that a weight gain in muscle 

                                could allow me to handle this mileage more regularly?

                                 

                                What I'm trying to say is that I have thus far found that the lighter I am, the more "delicate" I am in terms of training volume. At 110 lbs, a 25 mile week might leave me feeling exhausted and needing recuperation.

                                 

                                I'm guessing you could easily handle the mileage if you slowed down a little. In those 10 days you ran 4 5ks faster than your race PR, plus a tempo at least every other day and sometimes on the same day as the race pace 5ks. Where are you off to in such a hurry?

                                 

                                As for weight, have to find what works for you. Different for everyone.

                                Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                                We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
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