Why Is the Republican Field So Extreme? (Read 1977 times)

    OK, I feel compelled to chime in....

     

    For most of us on this side of the great ponds (North America), our parents, grand parents, ( .... great grand parents), came to America for a reason.  Some saw America as the land of economic opportunity.  Some saw America as a land of exloration.  Some saw America as a place of political freedom.  Some came for other reasons....

    For me, my dad and my mom immigrated to Canada from the Netherlands after WWII, and after hope was lost in the land of their heritage.  Since then, I immigrated to the USA for reasons similar to those mentioned above (mostly, though, because I married an awesome American woman).
    Regardless of how we came to America, our parents saw this land, these people, and our government, as the place to raise their families.

     

    It seems to me, that we are at a time when people are concerned about the future.

    In past generations, there was a land of opportunity elsewhere.
    Today, it seems as if there aren't many options elsewhere.

     

    Today, therefore, our challenge is to try to attempt to change a broken system rather than to start new.

    ---

     

    A few weeks ago, I was trying to explain the problem of government.

    We have a community here is Texas that built a huge, beautiful football stadium.

    They spent $60MM in taxpayer money to build this stadium.

    (see link: http://www.businessinsider.com/check-out-this-60-million-high-school-football-stadium-in-allen-texas-2010-4)

    At some point, a person had to sit down and justify asking a local community to pay the $60MM bill.  That person, at a local level, was able to persuade their community to agree to it.  At some point, wouldn't this person realize that what they're asking for is quite substantial and over-the-top?  Wouldn't it be more fiscally responsible to make appropriate cuts?... or Continue to use their existing stadium?

     

    My point is that the example I bring up is within a community where the voters would still seem to have some sort of financial understanding and personal financial impact analysis (the $$$ are still readable as in thousands, millions, as opposed to trillions).  Unfortunately, voting seems to be emotional rather than logical.

    At the state level, the issues are larger.

    At the federal level, the issues are much larger.

     

    -----

    Solution: Increase revenue, decrease spending..... radical change. novel concept.

    2014 Goals:

    #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

    #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

     


    Feeling the growl again

      But all of this talk about who is polarizing and who is not, etc., won't really matter if the unemployment numbers don't change.  If they are still high Obama is going to have a hard time being re-elected.  And it doesn't matter if it's Congress's fault, Bush's, or George Washington's for that matter.  Obama is our president now, so he will be blamed.

       

      We can go on pulling quotes all day and all night long, but it really doesn't matter.  What does matter is this.  Do I think that I am better off than I was in 2008?  No.  Am I just as worried now as I was in 2008 about the future of my children and hopefully grandchildren?  I sure am, probably more so.  Do I think that it is all Obama's fault?  Nope, but he is part of it.

       

      Honestly I fear the some real bad things are going to need to happen before these people on both sides of the fence in Washington snap out of it.

       

      I'm not sure I just blame Washington, seems to me the general public (and there is some evidence of this in this thread) is playing right into these games they are playing.

       

      While the economy is shakey, corporate profits have actually been relatively good.  However, rather than spending these funds to grow their businesses and thereby create jobs, many of said companies are sitting on this cash.  Why?  Because of uncertainty and fear.  They don't know what this mess of a government is going to do or what policies they are going to institute against corporations next.  So they sit in a holding pattern.  They basically kicked the can down the road on the debt issue, now that isn't even solved.

       

      The stranglehold at the federal level is as more a cause of our woes at this point than a result of them.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        A billionaire, a Tea party person and a liberal are confronted with a plate of 12 cookies. The billionaire takes 11 cookies and says to the Tea party person, "that leftie is trying to take your cookie."

         because this deserved to be quoted

        "You NEED to do this" - Shara

           

          While the economy is shakey, corporate profits have actually been relatively good.  However, rather than spending these funds to grow their businesses and thereby create jobs, many of said companies are sitting on this cash.  Why?  Because of uncertainty and fear.  They don't know what this mess of a government is going to do or what policies they are going to institute against corporations next.  So they sit in a holding pattern.  They basically kicked the can down the road on the debt issue, now that isn't even solved.

           

          The stranglehold at the federal level is as more a cause of our woes at this point than a result of them.

           

          I promised I wouldn't enter this fray. But sorry spaniel, I always respect your opinions but I can't let this slide. This is just wrong. Our economy has an aggregate demand problem. Companies are sitting on piles of cash because they have excess capacity as a result of lagging demand. High unemployment and high household and mortgage debt have suppressed consumer spending. If there's no demand, companies will not add capacity just to hire people.

           

          The deficit is a symptom, it's not the cause of our economic problems. And neither is over-regulation. And firms adapt pretty readily to them. Sarbanes Oxley, HIPAA, FISMA, etc, companies adapt and they invest when they see a potential return. The lack of investment and hoarding of cash is solely based on the gloomy economic outlook, not some looming regulatory boogyman or some fear of unknown, potential Federal government action. It's basic supply and demand. We have too much of the former and not enough of the latter. And cutting Federal spending and hinting at cuts to SS and Medicare only makes the demand problem worse. People then extend their worry about the present to a concern for their retirement years.

           

          The only "fear and uncertainty" affecting our economy is that felt by middle class workers that have no job security and fear for their future.

           

            He absolutely did not write what you paraphrased: that the only reason to disagree was based on skin color.  He didn't write that.  Like, at all.

             

            Thanks.  I really should have known better than to post that and go right to bed. Smile  More below...

            Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


            Feeling the growl again

              I promised I wouldn't enter this fray. But sorry spaniel, I always respect your opinions but I can't let this slide. This is just wrong. Our economy has an aggregate demand problem. Companies are sitting on piles of cash because they have excess capacity as a result of lagging demand. High unemployment and high household and mortgage debt have suppressed consumer spending. If there's no demand, companies will not add capacity just to hire people.

               

              The deficit is a symptom, it's not the cause of our economic problems. And neither is over-regulation. And firms adapt pretty readily to them. Sarbanes Oxley, HIPAA, FISMA, etc, companies adapt and they invest when they see a potential return. The lack of investment and hoarding of cash is solely based on the gloomy economic outlook, not some looming regulatory boogyman or some fear of unknown, potential Federal government action. It's basic supply and demand. We have too much of the former and not enough of the latter. And cutting Federal spending and hinting at cuts to SS and Medicare only makes the demand problem worse. People then extend their worry about the present to a concern for their retirement years.

               

              The only "fear and uncertainty" affecting our economy is that felt by middle class workers that have no job security and fear for their future.

               

              I didn't say it was the only problem.  I would not disagree with most of this post.  However many companies...some I am in a position to know quite a bite about...have made deliberate decisions to be conservative in moving forward not because there is not demand for their products/services but because they are concerned that if they invest in expansion/hiring that fallout from the current uncertain conditions caused in large part by things in Washington may tank things again.  So instead they are over-extending current resources and manpower to try and wait it out until there is less uncertainty.  This leads to a lot of over-stressed and over-worked employees.

               

              Not that there aren't a lot of other companies experiencing demand problems.  Your last sentence addresses that.  People fearful of their own financial future sit on cash or use it to pay down debt too.

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               

                Dude.  WTF.  That's as far as I'm even going to entertain that.

                 

                MTA:  No, I will say one thing.  It's incredibly insulting to see you assuming that rather than being able to look at actions and issues, the only reason one can disagree with his actions is due to his skin color.  I guess I have no issues entering into a biracial marriage but I can't stand a president of another race.  Yeah.  That's it.

                 

                Spaniel, that was not directed at you personally, and I'm sorry if it seemed that way.  When you called BHO "polarizing" it brought to mind the people I hear who really hate him.  You hear them on AM radio a lot.  And I believe that the true impetus behind the "Birthers" movement is not whether he has a valid birth certificate, but the feeling that a black man should not be president.

                Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                  When you called BHO "polarizing" it brought to mind the people I hear who really hate him.  You hear them on AM radio a lot.  And I believe that the true impetus behind the "Birthers" movement is not whether he has a valid birth certificate, but the feeling that a black man should not be president.

                   

                  Disagree!!!

                   

                  ----

                   

                  Modified to include:

                  The polarizing character isn't really black or white, male or female.  It's the words.  It's the actions.

                   

                  I don't believe that the birther's movement was necessarily right (searching for the birth certificate), but I don't believe that it has to do with the color of his skin. 

                  I do believe that it may have to do with the words he says, the actions he takes, or the fear of future words or actions.  It's a character challenge, not a color challenge.  Since there is a constitutional prerequisite to be President, there were people willing to try to find out whether there was a way to get rid of the character from his position.

                   

                  But, I should have said that "In my opinion, I disagree with your opinion" rather than imply that "you're wrong".

                   

                  Cheers,

                  2014 Goals:

                  #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                  #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                   

                    Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.

                      What's the over/under on the appearance of an atom bomb on this one? 15 pages?

                       

                       

                       

                        Quote?

                         

                         

                        I think you were asking me for a quote of what Obama said.  It was when he accepted the nomination to run for president.

                         

                        "I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth. "

                         

                        The context is someone looking back at history.  It's not like he meant to be Moses.  But still... it's incredibly arrogant sounding to say the least. 

                         

                        If you were not asking for the quote... then I can delete this.  I don't mean to bash one politician or another.  My point was that they all say stupid things. 

                         

                        If he would have said "The environmental challenges are large and the consequences to humanity of delay in how we react are too great not to act.  I will act to lead in a way to encourage investment in new technologies and encourage new approaches to help reduce human impact and to better deal with impact from natural cycle changes unrelated to human impact."  I would have liked that better.  but his sounds better on TV.  I feel that I can hold him accountable for his words however.  If you are going to say something in a prepared speach you'd better be able to own the words.  It's not like he said that off the cuff.  He was reading from a teleprompter. 

                        In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                        http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                         

                         

                         

                           Why?

                           

                          I disagree with this!

                          In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                          http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                           

                           

                           

                            Spaniel, that was not directed at you personally, and I'm sorry if it seemed that way.  When you called BHO "polarizing" it brought to mind the people I hear who really hate him.  You hear them on AM radio a lot.  And I believe that the true impetus behind the "Birthers" movement is not whether he has a valid birth certificate, but the feeling that a black man should not be president.

                            Agreed, anyone who dares hint at criticism of our President is obviously a racist.

                               

                              "I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth. " 

                               

                              Wait, this is the worst quote you can find from Obama? 

                               

                              I think that he was attempting to remind us of the urgency of "now"--a long theme of his during the campaign. A reminder that history is being made at every moment, and that the great difficulty of human history is to summon heroism over and over again, instead of glorifying past moments of heroism or positing heroism to come. 

                               

                              He was also using "we" inclusively here: saying that "we" will be able to look back on this time and say that "we" were the heroes--the ones that courageously addressed these ongoing challenges as if they were new ones; with urgency, fair-mindedness, pragmatically, without bitterness. Those were the grand themes of his campaign--they are long themes of American history: the idea of that ordinary people can be heroes of their own lives and do not have to wait on history.

                               

                              The rhetoric is high, and it echoes also the prophetic language of MLK Jr. and the Black church. This was the rhetoric of the civil rights movement--folks who took it upon themselves to address problems of racial injustice heroically. Obama wanted to echo the spirit of those times and invoke it to solve contemporary problems.

                               

                              (Of course those were polarizing times, too, to say the least.)

                               

                              I am not happy with Obama's ability to carry through on this rhetoric, and I am not sure I made the right choice in supporting him over, say Hillary. But I guess I am surprised at the tone-deafness here to what Obama was trying to say in his inaugural speech.


                              A Dance with Monkeys

                                "I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on earth. " 

                                 

                                Yeah, still waiting.

                                 

                                To me, there are no false assertions of fact here.  Just a vision of hope.  Arrogant? Nah.  Hopeful? Sure. Naive? In retrospect, yep.