Forums >Racing>Explain something to me (Prefontaine Classic related)
So, a woman's marathon time is not eligible for a world record if the woman's and men's races start at the same time, because she could gain some unfair advantage from being paced by a man, right?
Then why are the men (or anyone for that matter) allowed to have "professional" pacemakers in track and field?
I'm watching the Prefontaine Classic and they've used "pacemakers" in every race I've seen, from the 800 all the way up.
Why do they do this? I don't understand. Please help a newbie out.
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People have various feelings about pacing, but you couldn't get rid of it unless you only had one person time trials. A designated pacer is not much different from one training partner agreeing to pace another.
On the women's side, the problem is that it is very easy to find a male or whole group of male runners to pace women to records. I believe Takahashi had basically a wall of male runners breaking the wind for her. On the men's side, a record setting is going to have to run some element of the race on their own -- there is not a faster sex to provide runners to easily pace the entire thing.
IMHO the current rule is imperfect and somewhat of an impediment to women because it greatly reduces the number of races at which they could set records. Granted the big ones where a WR is likely to happen now separate the starts.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
How do they pick the pacer? I mean, they've got to be near world class elite in order to pace, right?
Are they official race entrants? Could a pacer say "Screw it, I'm feeling good and gonna win this race" instead of stepping off the last lap?
How do they pick the pacer? I mean, they've got to be near world class elite in order to pace, right? Are they official race entrants? Could a pacer say "Screw it, I'm feeling good and gonna win this race" instead of stepping off the last lap?
A number of years ago the pacer for the Chicago Marathon did indeed decide to go ahead and win it. They are official entrants. They typically sign to maintain X pace for Y distance or something like that. Once they do that...if they still have the gas to win....
The difference is in a men's race, it's typically someone good but not good enough to be gunning for the record so they don't last until the end. It's easy to stack a women's race with a good number of men capable of taking her all the way to the line.
Idiot #1 at LR.com paced Radcliffe to her 2:17 WR.
!!!
I think the consensus is that mom always liked wejo better than rojo, so #1 is fitting.
The issue of WR for the women's marathon was very controversial 5-6 years ago when they retroactively took away Radcliffe's record. But as far as I know the 2:15 in London was reinstated. It's still listed as WR at the IAAF site. If I remember correctly new records will have to be in a women's only field.
!!! I think the consensus is that mom always liked wejo better than rojo, so #1 is fitting. The issue of WR for the women's marathon was very controversial 5-6 years ago when they retroactively took away Radcliffe's record. But as far as I know the 2:15 in London was reinstated. It's still listed as WR at the IAAF site. If I remember correctly new records will have to be in a women's only field.
Correct on all counts.
And I'm not sure which brother deserves #1 because they both seem to act like #2.
But to make things more confusing, on the track IAAF allows mixed gender races as qualifiers for National and World championships (for 5k and 10k).
Know thyself.
Correct on all counts. And I'm not sure which brother deserves #1 because they both seem to act like #2.
I love the latest, rojo's 'bombshell' question to Galen Rupp at Pre, re: a recent Deadspin article on the "gray area" (using performance enhancers that undetectable or not yet illegal) and Rupp's use of a pollen mask and air filter to fight off allergies in Eugene. Then he went on the board and said he was "proud of myself." To this moment he still thinks it was a great question.
This makes things more fair for women who don't have access to elite European meets. A qualifying time, as opposed to a WR, is a time that a decent number of people your own sex are going to be able to hit. If you get in a fast meet with all of them, then they can pull you along. But if you're on the other side of the world or you're the fastest person in your country with a limited travel budget, you might not be able to do those races. Granted, it's not entirely equitable between the genders, but that's mitigated by the fact that men's running is deeper. Also, I don't think the WR rule is about gender equity. It's more of an aesthetic judgment about the purity of the sport: If you're setting a world record, you should cross the finish line alone as the last man or woman standing.
What was the secret, they wanted to know; in a thousand different ways they wanted to know The Secret. And not one of them was prepared, truly prepared to believe that it had not so much to do with chemicals and zippy mental tricks as with that most unprofound and sometimes heart-rending process of removing, molecule by molecule, the very tough rubber that comprised the bottoms of his training shoes. The Trial of Miles, Miles of Trials. How could they be expected to understand that? -John Parker
Also, I don't think the WR rule is about gender equity. It's more of an aesthetic judgment about the purity of the sport: If you're setting a world record, you should cross the finish line alone as the last man or woman standing.
It's supposed to be about unfair aid. IMHO the concern over that was way overblown and they could have dealt with potential abuse of having both sexes in the race without the blanket rule.
And, since it was supposed to be about unfair aid, I felt it incredibly ridiculous that they were going to smite Radcliffe's record yet let the Chinese drug cheat records stand.
Just a dude.
Rabbits are a tough one.
Back when Bannister ran, rabbits were not allowed. So any competitor that acted like a rabbit had to finish the race. They couldn't step off the track like they do now.
It's a weird one. Where do you draw the line? Could there be an official bicycle/motorcycle/golf cart with a wind shield on it at an exact size so that everyone has the same size rabbit blocking the same wind? It could even be set up to run at an exact pace for each split that is wanted. That might be a funny picture, but is it that much different than the wall of pacers I see at major marathons for the first 10-15 miles? There are often 6 or 10 of em.
The complaint from the women's side is that the depth of talent is much shallower. It is difficult to find pacers that can hang on to really fast paces as long as the men's pacers do. If we gave them the same pacing machine, everything would be all fair, right? Or, maybe we have to give them a slightly smaller pacing machine because in general, men are larger then women... So we get the percentage right...
/sigh
I understand the importance of the money involved and the record books, but sometimes I wish we could just say F it all, just go run.
-Kelly
Getting back in shape... Just need it to be a skinnier shape...
Rabbits are a tough one. Back when Bannister ran, rabbits were not allowed.
Back when Bannister ran, rabbits were not allowed.
?????
the 4 minute mile was accomplished in large part by use of rabbits. Bannister kind of started the whole thing really.
????? the 4 minute mile was accomplished in large part by use of rabbits. Bannister kind of started the whole thing really.
Agreed that Bannister had rabbits... but it was very controversial and "illegal". His rabbits had to finish: pretend they were real competitors... Had they dropped out and not finished his record wouldn't have counted.
It took a few years after Bannister before they were officially allowed.
MTA: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacemaker_(running)
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This seemed like a nice article on the problem with the women's world records: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/olympics/article-2184608/How-athletics-scarred-reign-chemical-sisters.html
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.