RunningAHEAD - Topic: Blaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh

kooky2003

Now that was a bath...

posted: 1/29/2007 at 12:34 PM

I can't run. Well I can, but at 5:30am this morning, in the middle of a monsoon and in the pitch black of an unlit running track, splashed with mud and only a throbbing ankle to bring me back to reality, I thought... 'Claire - you are completely insane!' I mean it was scary down there. You couldn't see anything and I didn't want to leave because I can't run on the concrete anymore as my leg/ankle hurts too much and I want to run, oh I want to run so bad. But that brings me back to the begining because I suppose there was truth there. I can't run. I thought it was my Achilles so I had four days off - and I iced and I massaged and I elevated and I wrapped it cosy and tight in a bandage which all seemed to help a little. Until I ran again. It doesn't appear to be muscular. It doesn't appear to be the tendon. It sort of feels like it's in my bone. Anyhow, I have started to wonder if comment that Waiheke was in my bones was actually a true statement because it really feels to me like I've damaged the bone. Stress fracture maybe? So when the sun rises and I've dried off, I will go see my Doctor and try to get an official diagnosis and find out what's wrong with the stupid leg. Hopefully I will be told that with a bit of strapping and a little rest, that in a few days - 'I can run'. Over and out. Claire xxx

jlynnbob "HTFU, Kookie's distal tibia"

Where's my closet? I need to get back in it.

Wingz

Professional Noob

posted: 1/29/2007 at 12:46 PM

Oh, no!

Claire, you're no wuss. Go find out what's wrong and go make it better! Cry

Roads were made for journeys...

rockenmamaof5

posted: 1/29/2007 at 1:05 PM

Good luck at the doctors! So sorry you can't run Cry

Your toughness is made up of equal parts persistence and experience. You don't so much outrun your opponents as outlast and outsmart them, and the toughest opponent of all is the one inside your head." - Joe Henderson

woodlandsprite

Finished!

posted: 1/29/2007 at 5:57 PM

Luck at the Dr's Claire - I hope you'll be mended soon and running again in short order!

Walk + Jog = wog.
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JakeKnight

posted: 1/29/2007 at 6:50 PM

Gee. I wonder what the doctor's going to tell you? Actually, I already know: If he isn't a runner, he'll tell you to quit running. Or cut way back. Which is exactly what will happen, one way or another, if you keep hurting yourself. If he is a runner, he'll tell you that there is absolutely no reason for a runner who's been at it for 2 or 3 months to be falling apart and dealing with pain all the time - and that if you'd be patient, and build up some base mileage for a while, you wouldn't be dealing with injuries all the time. For what it's worth, Lydiard would also agree with doctor number two. I read something not long ago he wrote on that very topic - about the skeletal and other changes you go through over time as you build up a base, which then prepares you to do the hard work (and hard races) without injury. If I can find it, I'll post it. If common sense won't work and you won't listen to me, maybe you'll listen to Arthur. (pause for a little Googling) Okay, this isn't what I was looking for, but the point's the same. The emphasis is mine:

Why is an aerobic base so important? For long distance runners, the answer is actually pretty obvious. For races of 5k and up, the race itself is nearly all aerobic. In a 5k race, about 85% of the energy your body will burn will be burned through aerobic processes. Only 15% of the energy you burn, give or take, will actually come from anaerobic processes. Even for races of as short as 800 meters, the race has a meaningful aerobic component. Aerobic training offers many benefits along this line, such as increasing the number of capillaries, the smallest of blood vessels which go through your muscles and directly deliver oxygen to your muscles for energy production, in your working muscles; increasing the number and size of mitochondria, the aerobic power plants of the muscle, within your working muscles; and increasing your body's ability to burn fat at higher rates, meaning you save your less readily available glycogen for when you really need it. The last one may not be of high importance for races of shorter distances but can have positive effects across the board. On top of that, building a strong aerobic base will allow you to get more out of your harder workouts you will be doing later with less risk of injury. The better the base you get in, the stronger your muscles, bones, and connective tissue will be, increasing your body's ability to handle the punishment of hard workouts as well as its ability to avoid injury. On top of that, your body will be working from a higher level of fitness, allowing it to work harder, get more improvement from each workout, and recover more quickly and completely between workouts which means you can get in more workouts. How do you establish a good aerobic base? It's actually one of the easiest parts of distance running training. All you do is get out and run easy. How far? As far as you can go and still be able to run tomorrow. How fast? Go by how you feel. Sometimes, that may mean fairly fast. Other times, maybe it means quite slow. In fact, leave your watch at home and just enjoy the scenery if that's what you want to do. According to Arthur Lydiard, there is no such thing as too slow for these runs, only too fast.

My two cents, but worth more. I know you don't want to hear it. But I also know that the only thing that will keep you from enjoying your running, and maybe getting really, really good at it, is injury or burnout. If you spent some serious time running lots of easy base miles (ala Lydiard), you might avoid all that pain, and all the time off your feet. THEN, when you're ready, you can go at it as hard as you want (okay, within reason). But too much, too soon, is always going to mean too many doctor's visits.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
-----------------------------

kooky2003

Now that was a bath...

posted: 1/29/2007 at 7:38 PM

Jake - I swear you love me too much. Tongue

One has to agree with the above, but my previous posts were saying that already. I had every intention of spending the next stage of my running purely building an aerobic base. I know that the training I have done to this point was furious and damaging. How is it the saying goes, "Parturiunt montes, nascetur ridiculus mus". Story of my life, methinks! Waiheke was probably a pretty stupid move for a person with such little running time under her belt. The only thing worse than running too many hills too early is running too many hills that are made of concrete as fast as you can too early - which is what most of the terrain on Waiheke was. I simply didn't have the physical development to prevent injury during that sort of pounding. Do I regret Waiheke? No. It was fire for my soul and it showed me a taste of where I want to go. Even if I have to take some time off running I still won't regret it, I will try and pause to learn from it, but I will always remember it with a smile. In that one hour and ten minutes I found so much achievement and I left so much of my past behind. I also just got back from the Doctor and she said that she thought possible stress fracture so she is sending me to a Sport's Doctor to see if he thinks that I need a referral for some tests. The appointment is in an hour. I am still hoping for muscular but my body is telling me bone - we will have to see what the expert says. Do you know I am still waiting for the official times for that race! Eleven days later and no sign of the results yet! I'll let you know what the sport's doc says as long as no one else tells me off Shy

Claire xxx

jlynnbob "HTFU, Kookie's distal tibia"

Where's my closet? I need to get back in it.

dillydoodles

posted: 1/29/2007 at 7:46 PM

Claire, You poor girl. Best of luck at the doctor's office. I'm sorry you're injured. I don't know very much about Lydiard, but I do know that when he started running himself, he ran slowly for years before he ever started racing. I wonder if some of his older books suggested slowly building endurance. What's the rush anyway? Wink

Good luck. I hope you can safely get back to running soon. (I'm not trying to rub salt in your wounds. You just worry me with your 'all or nothing' methods sometimes. It's the 'mom' instinct in me I guess.) ~ Arlene (From the first chapter of Galloway’s Book on Running) In the 1940s, Arthur Lydiard, a former rugby player, now overweight and working on the line at a New Zealand shoe factory, decided he had to make a change in his own life. Playing rugby weekends had done nothing to deflate the spare tire around his middle, so he decided he’d try to run off the excess weight. But watching the local runners of the day was discouraging. They sped around and around the track at full speed until they collapsed. “No pain, no gain” was the philosophy of the day. Arthur wanted to get in shape, but not that way. Instead, he took to the open New Zealand roads and embarked on a conditioning program of long, slow runs. Over the months he lost weight. Over the years he became addicted to running and discovered a long-hidden competitive spirit. He began to wonder how he might fare in a marathon and soon Lydiard the jogger became Lydiard the racer. He eventually came to represent New Zealand in the 1951 Commonwealth Games. (From A Conversation with Arthur Lydiard) As told by Pete Sexton, mild mannered Staff Reporter LYDIARD: "Well, you see, I'm the man who started people jogging in the first place, who coined the phrase "jogging" for that matter, and started people in cardiac rehabilitation, we did this in 1960. I wrote the first book on jogging, Run For Your Life. So I know how to deal with cardiac patients. In eight months we'd take a cardiac patient to running the marathon, and these guys are still alive today. We did this way back in 1961-62. So we know haw to deal with these people. But you've got to realize something if you're going to run a marathon - well we could go out on the street there, and we could get a guy out there and say, "Look, we'll give you a thousand pounds if you can walk 26 miles without stopping," he could do it. He could walk 26 miles. When you say to another guy, "I want you to walk and run 26 miles," he might walk one and run one and walk-run 26 miles, but when it comes to running 26 miles all the way without stopping, you've got a different ball game. So there's a certain amount of muscular endurance you've go to develop. And that means capillary development, otherwise the muscles will not contract. You'll get cramps and you can barely go on. So you've got to do a minimum of training time to go for longer runs. You've got to get those longer runs in. If you only do 20 or 30 miles a week, at least on the weekend try to get longer runs in, 10, or 15 miles, whatever you can. But always remember: it's not the distance that stops you, it's the speed. You go it slowly enough, you'll go a long way, right? And that develops capillary development, that's the muscular development we want, which will enable you to finish a marathon running all the way."

JakeKnight

posted: 1/29/2007 at 8:16 PM

Quote from kooky2003 on 1/29/2007 at 7:38 PM:

Jake - I swear you love me too much.

As if that's possible.

Quote from kooky2003 on 1/29/2007 at 7:38 PM:

Do I regret Waiheke? No. It was fire for my soul and it showed me a taste of where I want to go.

Good for you! Now be smarter (and patient, above all else, like Arlene said), and a year from now you can start running a marathon every week or two, like Trent. Of course, he has a few, um, issues ...

Quote from kooky2003 on 1/29/2007 at 7:38 PM:

Do you know I am still waiting for the official times for that race!

You're kidding. Did they time you with a sundial and an abacus?

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
-----------------------------

Jeff

Why is it sideways?

posted: 1/29/2007 at 9:59 PM

Quote from kooky2003 on 1/29/2007 at 7:38 PM:

I also just got back from the Doctor and she said that she thought possible stress fracture so she is sending me to a Sport's Doctor to see if he thinks that I need a referral for some tests. The appointment is in an hour. I am still hoping for muscular but my body is telling me bone - we will have to see what the expert says.

Here's my non-expert opinion that I probably shouldn't say because it might send the wrong message, but here goes: I doubt it's a stress fracture. In my experience stress fractures are caused by too much mileage, not necessarily too much intensity. You have things backwards--too much intensity, not enough mileage! But please please don't take my word for it. It's just a guess. Good luck!

Trent

Good Bad & The Monkey

posted: 1/29/2007 at 11:16 PM
modified: 1/29/2007 at 11:18 PM

Achilles tendonitis, possibly exacerbated by shoes that are tied too tightly. Usually worst right at the insertion of the Achilles tendon at the bone. Three to six weeks. Keep running, but be careful. No concrete. Grass or trail are best. Make sure you can slip a finger into your tied shoes. If it hurts, slow down. But keep moving. Ibuprofen and ice after running. Of course, as I write this, you already have seen your sports med doc and know the answer. So, do tell... Trent (aka Doc 2)

I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.

Poor baby

Chenille

posted: 1/30/2007 at 1:11 PM
modified: 1/30/2007 at 6:15 PM

This sounds eerily familiar to the injury I sustained last summer. I could see the periosteal swelling, and intially could not even walk without my ace wrap. I would get swelling along my shin bone just from the movements of pool running. I just knew that I had a stress fracture because of the pain & amount of swelling (I didn't) and I just knew I would never be able to run again because it was taking soooo long to heal . Bottom line - I am way older than you and in no where near the physical condition that you are in - you will be back stronger than ever. If I may, I would suggest using your off time to really work on building the stabilizer muscles in your lower leg - stretch band exercises are really good and you can do those at home. Hope the news from the Dr. is good and that your recovery is speedy!

Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by the number of moments that take our breath away...(unkown)

• Go With The Flow
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Mile Collector

Abs of Flabs

posted: 1/30/2007 at 1:25 PM

Hi Claire, Sorry to hear about your injury. I've only ran once in the last 3 weeks and 2 days, and I had to cut my run short because of pains. My physical therapists wouldn't let me run so I resorted to the stationary bike instead. It's just not the same! Anyway, I just wanted to say that I can sympathize with you. What did the sports doc say? I hope it's nothing serious.

Beantown Runners | On the Bench

JakeKnight

posted: 1/30/2007 at 1:58 PM

I hope the fact that we haven't heard back from you doesn't mean bad news ...

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
-----------------------------

kooky2003

Now that was a bath...

posted: 1/30/2007 at 2:48 PM
modified: 1/30/2007 at 3:12 PM

Well my Achilles is fine Trent. But I would be interested to see what you think of the diagnosis. Also Chenille I think that this is quite different, here's the low down. I have (and don't get) any swelling. I am not in pain at rest and I can also walk pain free, I am only sometimes aware of a slight ache if I walk for ages. I can squat pain free. Stand on tip toes pain free. Even stand on my bad leg only on tip toes pain free. I have full rotation in my foot and leg pain free. I can have someone push or tap hard on my heel upwards into my leg pain free. The only activity that hurts is running and the only investigation that hurt was when my leg bone was pressed about two inches above my ankle on the inside of my leg. The area of pain is very specific. You have to press against the bone firmly and I get a deep ache. Deep massage of that area also caused me pain. When I run and my heel hits the ground I get a juddering pain which feels like it is up inside the bone. It only happens on weight bearing impact. It hurts at the begining of a run then numbs out during the middle of a run. If I stop even momentarily though the pain becomes searing and I cannot run again without lot's of pain. The diagnosis was a dual one. The first possibility is a very weirdly placed shinsplint. This can happen. But her thought was that there is a good chance I have a stress fracture. Now how we move forward here is complicated and to explain why I need to explain 'my life' a little more. I don't drive and I have to walk to all these appointments with three small children, two of them in a large stroller that weighs a ton! I am probably the physio's most memorable client Wink

. This was a different clinic but associated with the other Sport's rehab I visited and this pyhsio had met me before many times. She knows that I walk everywhere and she knows that my appointments are difficult. For instance - In the few times that she has met me, Amelie puked all over the waiting room and toilet, Scarlett pulled the wall[paper off the walls. Scarlett had an 'accident' in the toilet that the physio had to clean up. Amelie (15 months) wanders from room to room with me chasing her, the kids unplug every treatment machine multiple times. Their favorite game is now pressing the button that alters my bed height during my treatment. Seriously, they are trying to treat me and the conversation is as follows... 'Jake can you plug the ultrasound back in.' 'Can we leave the button for Mum's bed alone.' 'Quick, put something in front of the door, Amelie is trying to run off again' 'Can you put that down. It's expensive.' 'Jake if they are under the bed when you lower it you will squish them.' 'Amelie you can't eat that.' 'Scarlett - not the wallpaper.' 'Toilet? You'll have to wait.' 'Never mind I'll clean it up later' 'I'll buy you presents if you are good.' On the basis of the above and the fact that everywhere I go people pity me, the treatment plan is as follows. Whether it was shinsplints or a stress fracture the initial treatment would be the same. No running. Physio with ultrasound and massage. Monitoring. If it is a shin splint they will see improvement in the next two weeks. If there is no improvement then it points towards stress fracture and they will send me around the corner to the big guy who writes the hospital referral for the appropriate tests. In the meanwhile it is doing me a favor by not sending me as I will have to walk to see him, then probably find my way to the hospital for testing. It will not change my treatment it will just confirm diagnosis and indicate how long I will be off my feet. So for now we cross our fingers and hope for improvement. Big grin

As I left the clinic the women behind the counter asked how on earth I found the time to run when I was so busy. I gestured at the children and said 'I'm running away' Clowning around

Claire xxx

jlynnbob "HTFU, Kookie's distal tibia"

Where's my closet? I need to get back in it.

Trent

Good Bad & The Monkey

posted: 1/30/2007 at 4:19 PM

An MRI or a bone scan will sort this out. Where is the pain?

I'm running somewhere tomorrow. It's going to be beautiful. I can't wait.

Poor baby

Blaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh (Read 1036 times)