Goal of sub 18:36 minute(6 minute mile average) and sub 18:00 5k (Read 3422 times)

Ok, so the sub 20 and sub 19 threads are pretty hot topics! But who is ready to make the leap to sub 18:36(6 minute mile average) or the rarefied air of sub 18:00! Just let me know what race and date you will make your historic attempt on. Wish us luck! Graduates: pRED 17:51 11-27-08 Great job! Hopefulls: JasonsDrivingForce(JDF) Sub 18:00 12/07/08 Rozz Sub 18:36 RunAsics Sub 18:00 norrin_radd Sub 18:00 Sometime next year! Dakota RR Sub 18:36 kencamet Sub 18:36 Next Spring Fetherolf Sub 18:00 Eddy Sub 18:00 Next Year

I reached 18:22 last November, and I desperately want to lower it to a hopeful sub-18. I am perplexed in what I should do since I also desire to run a sub-3 Marathon in December. I continue to have thoughts that I should forgo the sub-3 till sometime next year and spend the rest of this one doing the workouts to produce the speed needed for sub-18. What would you do? Can I do both??

Check out the "Improving Your 5k" User Group, where I had a small thread going on my sub 18:36 efforts. I topped out at 18:15 back in June just as I started marathon training. In that race I lost 5 to 10 seconds on my last mile as my legs weren't too fresh. I was then in the 18:20s for a number of races through July. I'm looking to dip below 18:00 post marathon. A month of travel has meant I've missed a lot of my planned marathon specific speedwork. However, I did manage to get in my last scheduled session (last week), which was 3*1 mile. I could still I hit 5:45 to 5:50 on the local bike path. I'm pretty sure that with careful application of speedwork I can get the job done. However, now I have to find a suitable race as the one I had my eye on was canceled due to road construction... well, it is Chicago.

JDF you are committing PR suicide if you go out if 5:00. With or without the stroller you shouldn't be going out in 15:37 pace.......

Not if all his current PRs have been run using the exact same strategy, which might actually be the case! Anyway, count me in for the 18:35 5k goal. I have 15 seconds to go...don't know my next race date yet, though. I did a 5x1000 interval session today. Didn't feel very good, but it was quite windy at the track, and I have not been getting much sleep lately (teething 9-month-old). I should be able to find a 5k within a couple of weeks, so we'll see how the next one goes!

I ran my best 5k twenty years ago, an 18:08. Ran it while training for Grandma's Marathon. Got hurt and didn't run another race till 2005. It's dumb to think it, but I still wish I would have had the opportunity to run some more 5k races and got below 18. So go for it!

Just because his current PRs are set that way does not mean he cannot run faster if he employs a more intelligent racing strategy. Nearly all faster runners PR when they even split. I realize the stroller is a weird situation, but having a stroller is not an excuse to run 5:00 when you can barely go 6:00 pace. AND if you do run 6:30 pace up the hills thats fine, they probably aren't a mile long, maybe not even a half mile long. Go out in 5:45 and try to maintain.

Yea I know it defies everything that is “accepted as fact for running”. However, running with a stroller(Especially the double stroller) is a whole different ball game. The shear weight of the thing(110+ pounds) means that I can not physically move it up a hill faster than about a 6:00 minute pace. And at 6:00 pace I can only hold that for about half a mile at the most. However, the downhills are a totally different story. If there is no wind I have routinely sustained 14 mph with little to no effort. I had an 8k race a couple of weeks ago where I did a 5:18 first mile and still felt fresh. Now that was down a steep hill with the wind at my back but it definitely helped to bank a few free seconds early on. I know it sounds illogical but I truly believe that you run your fastest time with the stroller by running fast down the hills and then holding back a little on the uphills. Think about this, the stroller wants to accelerate down a hill, if you try to hold it back you are just wasting energy. Imagine getting a nice german shepard(or two) in a full sprint and then trying to stop them by pulling on the leash. You are going to expend a lot of energy doing that. I have run 70 races with the single or double stroller in the past 5 years. My fastest races have come when I attacked the downhills wherever they were on the course. If you never have run with a stroller before you should give it a try. It is a lot of fun but it is totally different from running without it. I ended up running my last race with the double stroller. They changed the course this year so that the first half a mile was up a slight hill. I was prepared to run hard up that first hill to stay ahead of the crowd and then try to make up some ground on the next 1 mile downhill. What I wasn’t prepared for was what felt like a gail force head wind to me. The course went 1.5 miles out(into the wind) with 1 mile of that being downhill. Then it went 1.25 uphill and finished down a nice downhill. I ran almost the whole first half mile with the leaders up that hill. It hurt to hold the fast pace up that hill but I was ready for the break on the downhill. Normally I can use the stroller to my advantage on the downhill. I just try to keep up with it as it rolls faster and faster. This time was different though. The stroller didn’t go any faster on the way down the hill. Instead it was slowing down and I was struggling to maintain any speed at all. The wind was just too strong. Typically I gain on EVERYONE on the downhills. This time I was fading fast. Once I got to the half way marker I was totally spent and I had a 1.25 mile hill still to climb. I plodded my way up that hill the best I could. However, my legs were crushed from fighting against that wind. I dropped way back into the pack and just tried to keep the thing moving. I finally crested the hill and managed a 1:10 for the last quarter mile and a sub 28 second last tenth of a mile. But I had struggled just to break 20:00! I learned a lot from that race. I now know that the wind is the single biggest factor with the stroller. It makes the downhills MUCH harder and doesn’t help you at all on the uphills even if it is at your back. I definitely could have run this particular race faster if I had not tried to fight the wind so much in the beginning. That definitely was a mistake. However, if the wind had been calm I firmly believe I could have shaved at least 1 minute off of my time. Remember I was a full minute faster the week before with the double but no wind. It really did make that much of a difference. Anyway, my kids are getting too big for the stroller now so I don’t anticipate running with it much longer. When I run without it I will definitely hold a much more consistent pace. Good luck to everyone looking for these milestones. They are not easy feats!

Hi JDF, How did you end up doing at the Autism Ribbon run last weekend? Running those times with a stroller is very impressive. Any thoughts on trying a couple 5k's solo? Last year I was stuck around 18:30, but I've been able to break 18 on 3 occassions this year. Best of luck to everyone

I had a 19:59 which was more than 1 minute slower than my previous week. The wind was really tough that day. I have a 10 miler and a 5k back to back next weekend. I will run the 10 miler solo and I might run the 5k with my daughter only. I have done an 18:42 on the course for next weeks 5k with the double before so I am looking for a really good time there. I just hope it is not windy again. That HURT..... alot! I can honestly say that I have never run so hard in my life as at that Autism race and I barely broke 20:00. I felt like I had run a Marathon by the end of the 5K. My legs were destroyed. I have ramped my mileage up to 60 mpw now. In fact I did a 1:33:50 HALF training run the other day on a course with 2000 feet of elevation gain. I know I am capable of a lot more even with the stroller. I just can't beat the wind though!

JDF Have you ever crashed the stroller? Seems, to someone who's never run with a stroller, like it could be highly dangerous to go that fast in a race with a stroller (hard to keep it under control)? Not a dig or anything just wondering. Ken

That is actually a good question and I am glad you asked it. No I have never even come close to having an accident. That is after at least 70 races with the kids. I always start right on the line and I hammer the first 100 yards so that I am not in anyone’s way and I don’t have to contend with slower runners in front of me. I use a racing stroller that has a hand brake, large wheels, and a leash(That I always wear). That being said I will say that I have been in several races where there were accidents with strollers. For example: a grandfather decided to run with his infant child in a stroller with non-fixed(steerable) wheels in a local race. The guy was running just ahead of my wife and she said he was all over the road and had no control over it. He ended up crashing the stroller twice. The second time was serious and the baby started throwing up and having convulsions. The guy was promptly escorted off of the course and I believe that child services was then notified. Other than a few idiots like that I have not seen any problems. In fact several of our local races have stroller divisions that allow us to start 3 minutes before the rest of the field for added safety. It can be a fun and safe thing to do. You just have to be very aware of your surroundings, have a proper racing stroller with all of the safety features, and you also have to practice running with it a lot.