Goal of sub 18:36 minute(6 minute mile average) and sub 18:00 5k (Read 3487 times)

Ricky and Mike...awesome, thanks guys. I am going to try two things this week -- I will do some fast 200s and I will do an 8000m tempo at around 6:36 - 6:40 pace, which is 6-10 seconds per mile slower than my last 5k tempo. For the 200s, Daniels says 41 seconds, but do you think I should run them faster? 38-40 seconds? Faster? All out? Full recoveries, right? Anyone else want to weigh in with ideas on how to get me to 18:35 or faster? JDF, sorry you had a bad day. The good news is, next time will almost certainly be better!

For the 200s, Daniels says 41 seconds, but do you think I should run them faster? 38-40 seconds? Faster? All out? Full recoveries, right?

I'll step in and take a whack at this one. There's no right answer here, as this will vary based on your natural speed. The idea is to accelerate into the 200's and to run as fast as possible without straining and/or losing your balance. This is pure speed work, so don't try to make yourself hurt. The idea is to run fast, as efficiently as possible. Hence the full recovery.

I'll step in and take a whack at this one. There's no right answer here, as this will vary based on your natural speed. The idea is to accelerate into the 200's and to run as fast as possible without straining and/or losing your balance. This is pure speed work, so don't try to make yourself hurt. The idea is to run fast, as efficiently as possible. Hence the full recovery.

I agree. I wouldn't even necessarily time them.

Maybe I should taper for a goal 5k?

I probably shouldn't comment since I can barely beat 18:36 but I did run a summer series of seventeen 5k's on the same course starting with 19:01, 18:41 and 18:45 in the first three and ending with the last three at 18:21, 18:20 and 18:21. Here is what I learned: I never really tried a proper taper but the first half of the series I was concentrating on improving my 5k time and eased up the day before (nothing or a few easy miles). The second half of the series I was trying to build up mileage for longer races and ran longer the day before and essentially just trained through. I didn't feel this made any difference to my 5k times. One slight caveat is that the races were at 6pm so if I ran the day before (and I'm an evening runner) I had 24 hours recovery before the race. For me the key to a fast time was a fast, but controlled, first mile and then to concentrate everything on keeping up the pace on the second mile. The second mile is key for me, if I passed that second mile mark with a good time I could usually hang on until the finish. This is psychological rather than physiological but it works for me. The first time I beat 18.36 I did it by hanging on like grim death to a runner who had been beating me and I thought would be under 18:40. I'd run the first two miles that fast before but I'd never run the third mile that fast - and this time was probably all gained in the first half of the final mile. In later races in the series I found it a huge advantage to be around runners I recognized and had some idea of their pace, and even whether they tended to go out fast or slow. I'm not sure this helps you much but if you find yourself in such a situation don't be surprised if you pull a big pr. I have a bunch of analysis on the separate mile times if anyone is interested.For example a regression between the separate mile times and the total time. (eg The first mile time is a poor predictor of overall time (r2 is only 0.16), and the second and third miles are better predictors (r2 = 0.59 and 0.50 respectively)). Lots more nerdy stuff is available. Here is the raw data. The course is not flat and the first mile is uphill (fairly gentle, about 70' total). The second mile has a steeper hill (about 60' over the first half mile) plus a 180degree turn around a cone in the road and then a steep downhill back the same way. The last mile is gently downhill. There is no 3 mile mark so the time for the final mile is actually for 1.1 miles. Total mile 1 mile 2 mile 3.1 1 19:01 6:13 6:21 6:27 2 18:41 6:02 6:11 6:28 3 18:45 6:15 6:12 6:18 4 19:00 6:15 6:18 6:27 5 18:44 6:08 6:11 6:25 6 18:46 5:58 6:15 6:33 7 18:29 6:06 6:11 6:12 8 18:38 6:02 6:14 6:22 10 18:46 6:00 6:19 6:27 11 18:32 6:10 6:10 6:12 12 18:35 6:08 6:09 6:18 13 18:49 6:28 6:05 6:15 14 18:45 6:17 6:14 6:14 15 18:45 6:12 6:11 6:22 16 18:21 6:11 6:02 6:08 17 18:20 5:59 6:07 6:14 18 18:21 6:05 6:04 6:12 I thought I might learn something about pacing but even running at a pretty constant effort on the same course there are a lot of variables. The wind was the main factor but who else was there was a big factor too. I think my pacing was probably not variable enough to draw any strong conclusions (the 6.28 first mile in week 13 was into a gale). John

So tomorrow is the big day (for my team and me at least), the Class 3A Region 2 Cross Country Championship Race. Our last hurdle before the State Finals, this will be the second (and possibly last) attempt at sub 18:30. The course consists of packed clay and grass, no trees, and is relatively flat. To advance to States we need to place in the top 6 teams. It's going to be very exciting and I can't possibly imagine how nervous I will be when we toe the start line.

I don't have a 5k race this weekend so I don't think I have a shot at the sub 18:36. However, I do have a 10K stroller race that I would love to break 40:00 in. The only problem is the 15-25 mph head wind we will have going out uphill. That does mean a nice tail wind going downhill though. I have gone below 6:00 per mile with the stroller for the last two miles before. With that tailwind I am hoping I can go a lot lower. My first 5k split will be horrendous with the head wind and the hill. Hopefully, I can make some of that up on the return trip though. This time there should be a nice video of the whole thing! If a few of the guys and gals that I talked to show up then there will be quite a few strollers ahead of me in that video. This is a very fast stroller race. The course record is 34:43 with a single stroller for a 10K!

I saw elsewhere (wind/water/waves/heat/dust/vampires compared) that some guy flew through it on foot -- and you had just over 6min miles. Did you get video?

Yea I got a video of the first 5k but it is too big to post right now. I need to compress it first. It was just way too windy to get a PR. We had a 15-20 mph headwind until about mile 4. Then coming back we had a nice tailwind but I really don't think it helped that much. I had a 5:59 first mile and then I faded a bit with a 6:59 and then a 7:04. Then we had a tailwind and I sped up considerably with a 6:43, 6:25, and finally a 6:16 with a 1:18 last quarter mile. I ended up with a 40:44 and I was the 3rd stroller in. I had hoped for more but the two 7:00 minute miles into the wind just destroyed me. I was happy that I could drop my pace so steadily at the end though. And it is always nice to see the 15 mph top end after 6.24 miles! Garmin Report: http://tinyurl.com/66zmcb Anyway, I am on to my marathon training now. I have a marathon in mid December and I need to concentrate on that for now. I have one more 5k that should be really fast but it is 1 week before the marathon so I am not sure how fast I will run it. The first stroller came in at 36:14(Double stroller!) and the winner of the race ran a 30:04! Those are some really sick times on a very windy day! How did everyone else do this weekend?