Forums > Racing > Goal of sub 18:36 minute(6 minute mile average) and sub 18:00 5k
lace 'em up!
Did a 4K last night in 14:49 (5:57/mile). It was a tad warm for me (77F), but not too harsh. My Garmin splits were 5:51, 5:55, last 0.52 @ 5:50/mile. Garmin was 2.52 @ 5:53. AHR 173, Max of 183. (My max is probably about 186/187, which I saw last year). I still don't feel like I'm pushing myself enough in these races. Almost like I'm "afraid" to go too hard...
Was this a training run? Were you rested like you would be for a target race? If not, seems like in a race and rested situation, you could come very close to breaking 18:00 for the 5K. But, you'll have to remove that fear of running too hard.
No, it was a race effort. Though I did run 65 miles the week before. With 15+ on Saturday and 7+ on Sunday. I'm in my base period for the Chicago Marathon with a race every Monday, easyish running the rest of the week. I've got a 5k next Monday, but I'll be doing 18-19 on Saturday...
I seem to be able to run a lot of 6:3x - 6:4x miles, but when I get down to sub-6, I just haven't been in that speed range since H.S (19-20 years ago).
After skipping last week so I'd be fresh for the 15k (no regrets there!) it was back to the Santa Barbara shoreline tonight for my 8th 5k of the summer series. Like last time it was windy again, forecast was 15mph and for one moment as I completed my warm up I thought it might calm down but then it picked up again. Running along the oceanfront is beautiful but it is nearly always windy.
Strangely no-one seemed to want to step up to the line tonight. Perhaps everyone was waiting for a windbreak. I usually take the second row but eventually stepped up to the line tonight. No sooner had we started though than a dozen people raced by me. Go figure.
All in all the race was very similar to two weeks ago when it was also windy. First mile was 6:07 (exactly the same) - pretty much ruling out a sub-18 or pr. However the lead woman was hot on my tail and Charlie from San Diego was right in front of me. Charlie is a fast 52 year old who I narrowly beat a few weeks ago when I ran 18:09 to his 18:14. Charlie posts a lot as Charliepro on the Runners World California forum. I tried to pick up the pace after the mile mark but my legs were a little dead and the wind was hard work.Trying a new technique on the cone turn around I took lots of fast little steps. Seemed to work okay but I suspect it looked a bit daft.
I thought I'd got a little space on Charlie but he came steaming up beside me at the start of the downhill and really pushed me hard the rest of the way. We passed a couple of runners and I think if I'd been on my own I might have been unable to get away from them but we just flew by them. The second mile was 6:07 which was a little faster than the 6:10 two weeks ago.
This course is funny because you'd think with a 6:07 and a 6:07 my chances of a sub-6 pace would be shot but the last mile is so fast. Not easy. Far from easy. But fast. We zipped through the park and into the final 1/4 mile downhill with the wind behind us.
The picture is from about half a mile out. Dang, everyone in CA is so tanned. Believe it or not that is me WITH a tan. I just don't normally expose my shoulders. Mmm so pale.
After trailing Charlie through the park I made my move with about 400m to go. I opened up a small gap but Charlie came back and I could hear his footsteps closing so I had to kick it into a higher gear to pull away and finish in 18:22 (5:55 pace). The last 1.1 mile was in 6:08 (~5:35 pace) versus 6:09 two weeks ago. 9th overall out of 240 and 2nd out of 15 in the 40-44 year old age group
Beer tonight was Red Nectar and food was Tacos. Not a bad way to finish a Wednesday. All in all I was pretty pleased given the wind and the fact I should probably have taken a bit longer to recover from the 15k on Saturday. It's actually my 3rd best time of the season and I've now got an 18:22 to go with my 18:20 and 18:21 from last year and 18:23. 18:24 and 18:25 from this year.
John
With a brisk wind tonight was similar to last week. First mile into the wind was 6:11. Not feeling very sprightly tonight after 40 miles in the previous 3 days (20 on Sunday, 7 easy on Monday and 13 yesterday). Still I sucked it up and left the little group I was in at the half mile mark to brave the wind alone - it was too big a leap to reach the next group in front so I was stranded in no-mans land.
At the turnaround someone pulled up alongside. Could be my age group, I couldn't tell. They poured on the pressure on the downhill but I stuck with them. Second mile passed in 6:07 - same as last week. Coming back through the park was pure racing. As we hit the downhill I stretched out my legs and pulled ahead, finishing the final 1.1 miles in 6:00 (5:27 pace) for a final time of 18:18, 4 seconds ahead of my rival who did turn out to be in my age group. Given the wind I was quite pleased. Especially with that final mile. Okay, we had the wind at our backs but even so if I now put together my best first two miles (11:59) with my best last 1.1 miles (6:00) I've got a sub-18. This might sound a bit artificial but I like to know where those seconds are going to come from. It makes the whole thing a bit more believable.
Eighth overall and first in my age group. Of the seven people in front of me, three were 18, three were in their twenties and one was 33. So I don't feel too bad on my 45th birthday.
Your still peppering away at that 18 minute barrier John, nice run.
And happy 45th birthday!! Not bad for a young old un, or an old young un, whichever you prefer!
This might sound a bit artificial but I like to know where those seconds are going to come from. It makes the whole thing a bit more believable.
I like the way you think. Last year I was trying to figure out where I could gain seconds to go sub 20. I think its clear from your 5:27 final third pace that you aren't going to gain much there. You are a finisher plain and simple and don't need to put much work into strengthening that part of your game.
Last year I was running pretty even splits so was perplexed as where to find the extra seconds. I finally settled on mile one since I was the strongest then it would be the easiest place to try and find some seconds. (Of course I still took it cautiously for the 1st couple minutes) Well after a half dozen races averaging 1st mile splits around 6:32 I went out in what for me was my fastest race split ever in 6:18....and wouldn't you know I did not die a slow death ... I actually set a new split record on mile 3 of that same race with a 6:13! Keep plugging away its good to see you succeed.
Remember the quote "The more miles I ran the more talented I became"
Yeah but don't forget the course profile. It's buried back on page 9 so here it is again:
It might only be a 3 mile race but every one of them is different. Mile 2 would probably be faster but it also includes a 180 degree turn around a cone. The course is largely out and back and because of the prevailing wind it is out into the wind and back with the wind.
There's another thread here on how much should a 5k hurt. Trust me, each one of these miles hurts in a different way. Running 6 - 6:10 pace up a hill that gradually gets steeper and into a brisk wind gets real tough real quick. There's a brief respite around the mile mark as it flattens out but then the steepest part of the hill is just before the turnaround. The second mile also includes the 180 turn that breaks your pace and then the steep downhill that is very painful (and that's pain, not discomfort!) on legs that have just adjusted to uphill. The final mile, is, well, the final mile and is always tough but downhill with the wind behind you it means running at a speed I virtually never run at. That's okay for a sprint but doing 5:30 pace for a whole mile at the end of a 5k is tough for me.
This is so difficult!
John, I still remember you were about sub 19:30 5k and just a bit under 40 min 10k (remember Lake Merritt and Alameda Run for the Park) a couple of years ago. How did you make such a big improvement!!! I wish I could do that too!
Yeah but don't forget the course profile. It's buried back on page 9 so here it is again: It might only be a 3 mile race but every one of them is different. Mile 2 would probably be faster but it also includes a 180 degree turn around a cone. The course is largely out and back and because of the prevailing wind it is out into the wind and back with the wind. There's another thread here on how much should a 5k hurt. Trust me, each one of these miles hurts in a different way. Running 6 - 6:10 pace up a hill that gradually gets steeper and into a brisk wind gets real tough real quick. There's a brief respite around the mile mark as it flattens out but then the steepest part of the hill is just before the turnaround. The second mile also includes the 180 turn that breaks your pace and then the steep downhill that is very painful (and that's pain, not discomfort!) on legs that have just adjusted to uphill. The final mile, is, well, the final mile and is always tough but downhill with the wind behind you it means running at a speed I virtually never run at. That's okay for a sprint but doing 5:30 pace for a whole mile at the end of a 5k is tough for me. John
I have a local 5k loop that I like to run solo.
It starts and finishes in the same place but there is a long uphill section in one portion.
It probably ascends about 80 feet or so....and from my splits I estimate it costs me about 10 seconds for the half mile stretch (this includes the donwhill section that gives some time back). Right now I cannot afford 10 seconds in any race since my times are around 20:30 for a 5k and am aiming for sub20.
So if you are looking to break time records on courses that have any hills in them yes its going to be awful tough. I am impressed that Norrin ran such a good time. Yes I would like to break 20 minutes but without alot of extra training it just ain't going to happen unless I do it on a flat course with fewer turns.
This is so difficult! John, I still remember you were about sub 19:30 5k and just a bit under 40 min 10k (remember Lake Merritt and Alameda Run for the Park) a couple of years ago. How did you make such a big improvement!!! I wish I could do that too!
Same as you - one mile at a time! I just checked those results and our improvements over the 2 years since then have been remarkably similar.
In the July 2007 5k race I ran 19:32. My last 5k race was18:18, an improvement of 1:14 or 6.3%
In the July 2007 5k race you ran 21:15. Your last 5k race was19:51, an improvement of 1:24 or 6.6%
Of course you could quibble about pr to pr improvement or whatever but that would mean I'd have to look more stuff up. I could easily see both our last races and the LMJS results are always easy to find.
I'd be quite happy if I could achieve half that improvement over the next 2 years.....
Hi John, good analysis. I guess that is true. I was just thinking that going from 19 to 18 is more difficult. I just hope I have the chance to break 19 in the next year or two.
Same as you - one mile at a time! I just checked those results and our improvements over the 2 years since then have been remarkably similar. In the July 2007 5k race I ran 19:32. My last 5k race was18:18, an improvement of 1:14 or 6.3% In the July 2007 5k race you ran 21:15. Your last 5k race was19:51, an improvement of 1:24 or 6.6% Of course you could quibble about pr to pr improvement or whatever but that would mean I'd have to look more stuff up. I could easily see both our last races and the LMJS results are always easy to find. I'd be quite happy if I could achieve half that improvement over the next 2 years..... John
Others may differ but I'm not sure this is true. At least going from 19 to 18 there is the sub-6 pace goal in the middle.
I think I've said this before but I feel that whatever goal you are currently working on is hard, the next goal seems impossible while the previous goal seems easier as it recedes in the rear view mirror.
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