Forums > Racing > Goal of sub 18:36 minute(6 minute mile average) and sub 18:00 5k
Right on Hereford...
Nice to see all the progress on this thread. DCV and kosherdave, great job with the new PRs! And John, you've been putting in some great efforts lately, and writing up some enjoyable race reports.
For my part, I don't think I'll race another 5k until after Chicago. I wouldn't do very well in one right now anyway. I did my first interval workout yesterday in quite a while. It was supposed to be 6x800 at 5k pace. My last 5k was at 18:32, so I figured I would shoot for 2:58 800s. Well, I started at 3:01 and by the last one I was at 3:14. That's not even half marathon pace!
Conclusion: I'm tired right now. I've been following Pfitz 70 pretty well, except for last week when I was in Texas and just couldn't finish most of my workouts because of the heat. I'm also tired from my half marathon on Saturday. It went ok (1:24:20), but I was hoping for better since it was a 1000-ft downhill course. Anyway, I will take it easy for a few days and hope the legs come back.
The 12 with 7 @ LT looks like a staple Pfitz workout. Its probably the hardest LT run of the cycle. However, Pfitz states that its to be between 15k and HM pace. And that for faster runners, it should be more towards HM pace. There usually is a 10 sec/mile difference in pace between 15k and HM paces...
Exactly, it's from Pfitzinger's 70-85/18 week schedule. This is the last week of 'mesocycle 2' and is labelled 'Recovery'. I'm not sure whether this is a misprint or a Pfitzinger joke but the 'Recovery' week has the highest weekly mileage in the whole program (87), the longest long run of the whole program (24), one of the toughest lactate threshold workouts and a 15 mile medium-long run thrown in for good measure....
Pfitzinger never quite says what he considers a 'faster' or 'slower' runner. Given that some of the tables and comments in the book indicate it is aimed at marathoners aiming anywhere from 2 and change up to 4 I'm assuming that aiming at sub-3 is right in the middle so for the lactate threshold work I've been aiming about half way between 15k and half marathon pace - and since this is so close to 6:26, which is such a familiar pace, I usually end up there. I'm hoping for around 6:30 pace in my next half and I managed 6:22 on moderately hilly 15k.
Dakota - I'm surprised you can walk a few days after a 1,000' downhill half, let alone try anything speedy.....
John
John, that's definitely a misprint. Pfitz meant to put the "Recovery" label on the week prior to that one. Compare it any of the other 18-week plans and you'll see what I mean.
Regardless of what you call it, that's a serious training week. Good luck and hats off to you for going for it.
I should post this under 'How much should a 5k hurt' with the reply - this much!
Nite Moves 5k Week 14 - Racing is fun
I was feeling good for the race this week. Coming off a good race on Sunday, with a couple of easy days to recover, I was hoping for a good performance in the 5k if the weather would just cooperate. But no, winds were forecast for 17mph, later reduced to 11mph. But still, that's not good news when they are in your face for the first mile.
Felt good warming up but got totally screwed by the start. For some reason everybody decided to sprint in front of me. What's with that? Picked my way through the field and hit the 1 mile mark in 6:11. Doh! Pretty much means that a sub-18 is off the table but I didn't care too much. Just wanted to push as hard as I could. I passed several people around the first mile mark and pushed hard to the turnaround. Coming back to mile 2 it was getting quieter, just me and Barry, the 58 year old guy who dominates the results when they are age graded. I pushed hard on the uphill, he pushed hard on the downhill. We hit the 2 mile mark in 12;14 so the second mile was 6:03. The picture is somewhere around the 2.75 mile mark. We'd pushed each other so hard on the downhill we were catching the runner in front. They were a lot younger though and I knew they'd beat me in a sprint. I closed to within about 20 feet and then hung behind them as they sped up for the finish. With about 20m to go I blew by them before they had time to react. Cool. Chalk another one up to age and wisdom. Final 1.1 miles were in exactly 6:00 (5:25 pace).
Finished in 18:14. Third fastest time of the year ( or ever). Very happy with this in windy conditions. Good racing.
Nite Moves 5k Week 15 - Uggh
Last night was the opposite of last week. Coming off a bad long run on Sunday (a story for another thread) I really wanted to run well to make up for that dissapointing run. But with a stiff head wind to start I was off to my slowest first mile in a long time 6:14. After the turn I passed one more runner and then was stuck in no-man's land with a big gap to the runner ahead and the second mile was 6:08. Not much to relate in the last stretch, it was hot, it was long, it was fast and in the end the last 1.1 miles were 6:08 for an 18:30 final time. It was a local grand prix night so the competition was a bit tougher than usual. I was 13th overall but first in my age group now they've split the age groups into 5 year increments.
For some reason I was pretty dissapointed by this. With the wind I wasn't expecting to pr or go sub-18 but I was hoping for at least 15 seconds faster. I think I was mostly dissapointed because last night I really pushed very hard and expected something better for all that effort! Sometimes it doesn't work out that way though....
Looking on the bright side I think this is the first time my position has increased after age grading in a Grand Prix race. I usually slip a few places because there are some darn good women who I usually beat - but only in the sense of crossing the line before them. Last night I actually went from 13th to 11th after age grading. Another bright spot was that I ran the final 1.1 in 6:08. I have run this fast, and faster, before but only in a head to head battle. Running this time for the last stretch solo was good. In the end I actually finished only 2 seconds behind the runner in front so I'd really gained a lot on the last mile and they are not a runner who slacks at the end!
Here's a picture of the Nite Moves start from a few weeks ago I found on the web. I rather like this picture because after literally just a couple of hundred meters from the start the first 6 runners are already in the positions they will finish in. (I'm the one who spoils the sequence, I need to skip forward two places and then the top 8 would be in the correct finishing order). The picture is also a nice preview of coming attractions: Pier to Peak half marathon - 10 days and counting. You can't quite see the pier (but I think you can guess where it is) and you can't quite see the relevant peak (it's actually a bit taller than the ones you can see) but you get the idea. I'm hoping the marathon training will reap some rewards there even if I haven't done much specific hill training for it this year.
Resident of Pennsyltucky
John - love the race reports. Each week I read through them waiting for the report that has you at 17:59. Its coming sooner or later!
I FINALLY had some progress today after 2 months of mostly blah, where I've had trouble topping 30 miles in a week, getting in a decent long run, and fighting burnout. I've managed to hang out at 24-25 miles per week average all summer despite being on the treadmill all but 2 days of the past 4 weeks due to heat/humidity.
I did a tempo run on the treadmill tonight, deciding at the last minute (the end of the first 8:00 mile) to do it. I hit 6:44 for the first mile, increased a bit to 20:00 at 3 miles and then had 33:11 at 5 miles! Hooray! That's a new 21st century PR I surely didn't expect, having felt tired all week and deciding at the last minute to do the tempo run. Overall I did 6.5 in 45:11. I'm back in the neighborhood of sophomore year of high school times - an autumn I did 32:56 for 5 miles, PR'd at 18:15 at the county meet but then ran mid 17's in two road races in December. Hopefully should I race this fall I can have similar results.
Now that it looks like we're getting a break in the tropical slop, maybe I can start upping the miles again too.
What does Tunis make?
I felt stuck in 18:40-19:00 slot, as I ran a number (5-10?) of 5Ks the first half of this year in that range. Then I ran a big surprise 18:12 at an out-of-town flat 5K, but haven't reproduced that since. It kind of left me discouraged about the 5K -- I feel like I no longer have a reasonable chance to PR after that --I had great competition all through that one, which consumed me for its duration, and kept my mind so occupied I didn't get distracted by the pain and slow down, which I think is what usually happens.
That is to say, it was a great course (no hills), and a great weekend, and I had great competition -- maybe everything came together, and now what is the chance I'll get such a great chance again of everything being optimal at the same time -- not very much.
But happily this weekend I think I pushed under 18:40 in a local race -- they've not posted, and I forgot to start my watch, and I was out running and didn't see the results someone said were posted on a table afterward, and I missed it when they called my name at awards -- but someone told me I ran 18:32.
So maybe I'll get a bit over the feeling of discouragement.
It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.
Congrats AP! 18:32 is outstanding. Feels good to get some confirmation from such a big PR, eh? I had the same kind of big PR when I went from 18:58 down to 18:31 this summer. Always a doubt that it was real.
I was supposed to run a 10K Sunday (yesterday) but had to do a 5K instead. 18:20 (by my watch, waiting for official results!), lowers my PR by 11 seconds. So, like you, I get some confirmation that I really have made progress. Yay!
Third post down in this thread descirbes my 'experience'.
http://www.runningahead.com/forums/post/394e595b1a5548d08215ce1dedc1e7bb#focus
Nite Moves 5k Week 16 - A satisfactory finish
The last week of the 18 week Nite Moves series. I felt better tonight because I had a good long run on Sunday having (hopefully) cracked the drinking problem - 12 miles at a reasonable pace (probably right around 8 ish) followed by 4 faster (probably 7.30 ish) and then 4 at marathon pace (around 7-ish). Took a couple of easy days (7 on Monday and 10 on Tuesday) and was hopeful of a good time on the last Nite Moves.
The wind was pretty much typical though, probably just under 10mph from the West (ie a headwind to start and a tailwind to finish), the temperature was warm but not quite as hot as its been. Nobody was pushing to the front so I got a good poll position and off to a clear start. 6:08 at the first mile. I'm not even sure how I interpreted this but I really wanted to push hard on the second mile so was digging deep. So it was a little disappointing to hit the second mile in ..... 6:08. Not quite sure how this happened, I was pushing hard. The wind and the hill were tough. Mile 3 is all downhill though. I was racing one of the regulars and gaining on another, actually someone much younger and better but they were running with a dog tonight. Into the final 1/4 mile I left the person I was with and gave it everything I had to catch the dog (and runner). It seemed to entertain the spectators at the finish if nothing else. I didn't quite make it, although we both got the same time - 18:22 - so the final 1.1 miles were 6:06. 6th overall I think.
I was fairly pleased tonight because, regardless of the time, I felt I pushed as hard as I could and I paced the race well.
I missed the first week of Nite Moves because the town was on fire, I skipped one week before my 15 race and I did one week deliberately slow as I went around the course twice. So I had 15 races where I pretty much raced as hard as I could. I got to sniff sub-18 a couple of times (18:06 and 18:09) but all the rest of the races were fairly tightly clustered around a mean of 18:25-ish (In descending order of the rest 18:14, 18:18, 18:22, 18:22, 18:23, 18:24, 18:26, 18:26, 18:27, 18:30, 18:30, 18:33, 18:33).
Next up, Pier to Peak half marathon on Sunday. In contrast to 2007, when I was hopelessly naive, and 2008, when I was not very confident of my ability, I'm actually quietly confident this year and looking forward to it. Well, as much as you can look forward to 2 hours of unrelenting agony....
A nice finish to an impressive sequence of races John. I'm sure on a flat course you would have sub 18 by now, but I bet you'll get it on the Nite Moves course next year too.
Good luck with the Pier to Peak half on Sunday, I think your improvement from last year to this will really come through strongly in this race and leave you very confident for Cowtown. Best of luck, it sounds like a great race in a masochistic kind of way!
after a couple months of lots of miles with little of it faster than tempo pace (6:15-6:30 depending on distance), i did my first solid track workout this morning and surprised myself by running 5x1,200 in 4:20, 4:15, 4:15, 4:15, 4:10, with 400m jog recoveries. so a 4:15 average, or 5:42 pace (admittedly the 4:10 at the end hurt, but the first 4 were ok).
before the last "5k", about 6 months ago, i was doing these around a 4:30 average (6:01 pace) and went on to run the 5k at 6:04. there is a reasonable (ie. flat and certified) 5k/10k coming up in 18 days, where last year the top 6 went under 18:36 so I should have a few people to race with. I was going to tun the 10k as a marathon prep race, but am now thinking this is a good chance to give that 17:XX a shot. hopefully going from "5x1200 at 5:42 with 400m jog recoveries" to "4 and a bit x 1200 at 5:47 with no recovery" isn't too ugly.
this is the part where you all weigh in and say encouraging things like "go for it!" and "with those 1,200s you should easily get 17:XX" etc etc.......
cheers - alan
Person of Interest
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