Goal of Sub-3 Hour Marathon (Read 15824 times)

    Thanks for all the advice and commiserations. Where's the fun in succeeding 1st time anyway ( or 2nd come to that)! I know in my heart I have the will to try again and just hanging out on this thread provides plenty of inspiration so speak to you all soon. Good luck this weekend kencamet.
      Oh and good luck hubbardsw too!
        Just out of interest, how far back from the line at Boston would I be with a PR of 3.05:00? Enough to hamper a sub 3 attempt? How bad are the hills at Boston? Part of me thinks the cramps at Amsterdam were caused by the sheer monotony and repetition of the flat terrain.
          Just out of interest, how far back from the line at Boston would I be with a PR of 3.05:00? Enough to hamper a sub 3 attempt? How bad are the hills at Boston? Part of me thinks the cramps at Amsterdam were caused by the sheer monotony and repetition of the flat terrain.

           

          You would most likely be in the 3rd corral. I was in the 3rd corral last year and ran a 2:58, so its not a problem. The first mile is a little crowded, but that is good to prevent you from going like a bat out of hell, since there is a big 150ft drop that first mile. I think I still managed to run a 6:4x first mile... It will take abot 1 minute + to cross the starting line from the 3rd corral...

          I'm having one of my slowest recoveries from a marathon ever. My last two runs (4 and 5 miles) were more painful than Chicago... Like starting from scratch... 

          flovesparko


            Lanky,   still a great race and I'm sure you will get it next time.  You don't keep a log so I'm not sure  of your miles.  I fell short of the goal a few times and I think it was just because I didn't have enough weekly miles.  On three attempts that I failed, I only had a maximum average of 38 miles for a 18 week training cycle.  Each of those marathons, I had cramps.    The moment I got my average  miles to 55  per week  for the 18 week cycle, I made my goal.  Also had absolutely no cramps or any soreness even the day after the marathon.   Based on your personal bests, you definitely have the speed.  Keep up the good running.
            Ger


              Lanky,   still a great race and I'm sure you will get it next time.  You don't keep a log so I'm not sure  of your miles.  I fell short of the goal a few times and I think it was just because I didn't have enough weekly miles.  On three attempts that I failed, I only had a maximum average of 38 miles for a 18 week training cycle.  Each of those marathons, I had cramps.    The moment I got my average  miles to 55  per week  for the 18 week cycle, I made my goal.  Also had absolutely no cramps or any soreness even the day after the marathon.   Based on your personal bests, you definitely have the speed.  Keep up the good running.

               

               

              Doing the Dublin marathon in 5 days time, first done a marathon in 2005 in 3h34m58s just as a recreational runner but got bitten by the bug. I have hit an average 50 miles for the last 20 weeks before this taper week, The last 6 weeks averaging 57 miles. I have a PB of 37m30s for 10k in August of this year and 1h22m29s 4 weeks ago.  Got 4 x 20 mile runs done the slowest being 7m45s pace and the last  one 7m7s mile pace. This is only my second marathon and I am feeling a little apprehensive and confused as to what to do between now and next Monday.

               

              So far this week:

              Sunday 10 miles at 7min pace.

              Monday 4 miles at 7min 20sec pace

              Tuesday 5 miles at 7min 26sec Pace

              Today 4 miles 6m 56sec pace with middle 2 miles at 6min 24s pace

               

              Any advice on what to do running wise, eating wise, what pace to do on race day, or and other info you could give me would be very much appreciated.

                Here's my take on the last few days, I'm sure you'll get others responses - obviously, do what feels right to you.

                 

                I wouldn't be doing a lot of fast running from here on out. 

                I have a marathon this Sunday and I'll be doing 3 to 5 miles each day all easy with the exception of a few strides Wednesday and Saturday.  I'll be eating normally, nothing different there.  Will wake up extra early (at least a couple hours) and eat some food (not really sure what but maybe a bagel, a banana etc) drink some coffee and then sit around waiting to get rid of last night's dinner.  I won't be drinking tons of water beforehand but will be normally hydrated. 

                I don't know your race course but I think it's wise to go out at goal pace and NO faster during the first half, you may have to adjust based on specific course profile.  For my race the 1st half is uphill and the 2nd half is dh (out-and-back course) so I'll go out just a few seconds slower than goal pace.  Don't succumb to the urge to go 'just a bit faster' cuz you'll definitely want to.  Hold back in the first 16 or so miles then, maybe, let 'er rip (which for me usually means just don't slow down).

                 

                Good luck Ger!  You seem well-prepared.  I checked the weather forecast for Dublin on Sunday and it looks pretty much ideal.  Low of 39, high 57 no rain forecast.

                 

                Modified:  Oops, Monday!  Weather still looks good.  One other thing I am doing that I failed to mention - I am eating lots of fruits/veggies of all types (more than I usually do) to try to ward off my old nemesis - cramping.   Hopefully, electrolytes will be topped off on race day.

                 

                Good luck also to hubbardsw at MCM.

                  Lanky,   still a great race and I'm sure you will get it next time.  You don't keep a log so I'm not sure  of your miles.  I fell short of the goal a few times and I think it was just because I didn't have enough weekly miles.  On three attempts that I failed, I only had a maximum average of 38 miles for a 18 week training cycle.  Each of those marathons, I had cramps.    The moment I got my average  miles to 55  per week  for the 18 week cycle, I made my goal.  Also had absolutely no cramps or any soreness even the day after the marathon.   Based on your personal bests, you definitely have the speed.  Keep up the good running.

                   

                   

                  Thanks for the encouragement. I was averaging in the high 50's for the 12 weeks of training with at least 4 weeks in the mid 60's. This was about  10 miles a week higher than training for my only other marathon which explains to some extent why I was feeling so good up  to the cramps setting in.  You say you trained for 18 weeks though. That's a long old slog!

                   

                  Ger - In my limited experience I would cut out any speedwork now. Perhaps just a couple of runs easy lasting for 30mins and maybe a 15min gentle jog to ease the nerves the day before the race. Your times are great. Don't let the excitement on the day ruin your chances. Really contain yourself up to 20miles. If you stick to 6.50 miles it should feel very easy for the first half but fight the urge to speed up. It will get harder in the last 6 and you'll be thankful you kept something back as you pass all those who set off too fast.  Good luck

                    Goodluck Ger, Ken & HubbardsW!

                     

                    Ger, I'm with Ken & Lanky in that I wouldn't cut any runs out but just keep them in the 3-5 miles range with a few striders.  It's too late to gain anything now, you can only lose by pushing too hard at this stage.

                     

                    Nice 10k at the weekend by the way Ken - it's a pity it was a tad short - but you were still smoking!

                      ken, Dublin is on Monday the 26th...  

                       

                      Good luck Ger!  You seem well-prepared.  I checked the weather forecast for Dublin on Sunday and it looks pretty much ideal.  Low of 39, high 57 no rain forecast.


                      Right on Hereford...

                         

                         

                        Doing the Dublin marathon in 5 days time, first done a marathon in 2005 in 3h34m58s just as a recreational runner but got bitten by the bug. I have hit an average 50 miles for the last 20 weeks before this taper week, The last 6 weeks averaging 57 miles. I have a PB of 37m30s for 10k in August of this year and 1h22m29s 4 weeks ago.  Got 4 x 20 mile runs done the slowest being 7m45s pace and the last  one 7m7s mile pace. This is only my second marathon and I am feeling a little apprehensive and confused as to what to do between now and next Monday.

                         

                        So far this week:

                        Sunday 10 miles at 7min pace.

                        Monday 4 miles at 7min 20sec pace

                        Tuesday 5 miles at 7min 26sec Pace

                        Today 4 miles 6m 56sec pace with middle 2 miles at 6min 24s pace

                         

                        Any advice on what to do running wise, eating wise, what pace to do on race day, or and other info you could give me would be very much appreciated.

                         

                        Ger, I was in your position just a couple weeks ago. I had only run one marathon, it was 3 years ago, it was in the 3:30 range, and I was shooting for sub-3 at Chicago.

                         

                        I followed the Pfitzinger plan, so I did a so-called dress rehearsal run 4 days prior to my marathon. Warmup 3 miles easy, run 2 miles at marathon pace, 2 miles cooldown easy. Wear the clothes and shoes that you plan to use in your race. I liked this run because it felt great and helped me get even more mentally ready to race.

                         

                        Other than that, yeah just keep the runs in the <=5 mile range and easy until race day, with maybe some strides (6x100m, for example) at the end of your run 2 days out. Basically what the others have said.

                         

                        As far as eating, again I followed Pfitz's advice. I ate a normal diet until 3 days out, then I focused on carbs. Not to excess, mind you, but I definitely shifted my diet so that a higher percentage of my calories was coming from carbs. I truly feel that this helped top off my muscle glycogen stores, which was immensely valuable on race day.

                         

                        On race morning I got up at 4:30, three hours before the start, so that I could eat a light breakfast (bowl of Cheerios with milk, glass of OJ) and make sure it was digested before the gun. I also had a cup of coffee to ensure I was a pound or two lighter, if you know what I mean. Then I went back to bed for a little more rest.

                         

                        You've got speed to burn, so I suspect your main issue during the marathon will be containing yourself for the first 15-20 miles. Just make sure it feels very, very smooth and easy during those miles. Remember to relax. For myself, I thought it felt really easy through 13.1, but I still took it just a hare too fast and ran a 2-minute positive split. I still got my sub-3, so it wasn't a disaster. Just a word of caution, that's all.

                         

                        I think you will do great in Dublin. Good luck and post your race report here when you're done!

                        jordirio


                          good luck in dublin Ger


                          I will try sub-3 in march 2010 in Barcelona Marathon

                          10km 38'19'' HM 1h22'07'' M 2h58'44'' www.runningandthings.blogspot.com

                          Ger


                            Guys just looking into carbo loading, just took a look at a 425g tin of Creamy Rice Pudding  which contains 66.6g of carbs, 34.8g of which are sugars and 8g of fat.  I am not a big fan at all of pasta so was thinking of using this instead. Please correct me if I am wrong but I was thinking of carbo loading as follows the next few days.

                             

                            Cornflakes 1 x Bowl ( Semi Skimmed Milk)

                            Porridge 1 x Bowl (Semi Skimmed Milk)

                            Creamy Rice Pudding 1 x Tin

                            Apple x 1

                            Banana x 1

                            Orange x 1

                            Mars Bar or Kit Kat x 1

                            Powerade 1 x 500ml Bottle

                            Toast & Jam x 3 Slices

                            Dinner comprising of chicken, rice or potatoes

                             

                            Any ideas if this would be any good or not. Thanks

                              Here's roughly what I ate in the 24 hours before Chicago...

                               

                              1. 2 mile workout with 3 minutes @ mile pace, then...

                               

                              1. One serving of UltraFuel (400cal,100g Carb)

                              2. Sit down buffet breakfast (Buttermilk pancakes, french toast, orange juice, hash browns, couple of pastries)

                              3. Lunch of macaroni & cheese, large. Some bread. (noodles & company)

                              4. Pasta dinner with bread, glass of red wine.

                              5. 20oz of gatorade

                              (Sleep)

                              6. At 5am, 2.5 serving of UltraFuel (1000cal, 250gCarb)

                              7. About 10-15 minutes before race 10-12 oz of Gatorade.

                               During race -> 4 gels (6, 11, 16, 21). Gatorade and water. Remember though. Chicago was 30-35F, so the sweat rate was really low. It was also pretty dry out if I remember.

                               

                              So I defintely got in 700+ grams of carbs in that last 24 hour period. I also had pasta for dinner on Friday night.

                              DoppleBock


                                Wow

                                 

                                Thats a lot of eating the 24 hours before a race

                                 

                                I typically have a larger carbo loading meal (Not extreme) 2 nigths before the race

                                 

                                I have tried the old run 3 minutes fast but then I take 1000 calories of Endurox R4.  After that I tend to eat on the light side the rest of the day.  I do eat a light to moderate meal of carbs that night.  The next morning 3 hours before I again have 800-1000 calories of Endurox R4.

                                 

                                I drink a fair amount of h20 the last 2-3 days.  But if I start peeing alot.  I will slip in some gatorade, S-Caps and bannanas to help keep electrolytes in balance

                                 

                                I think you should experiment until you find what works for you.  I have tried 5-6 different methods of carbo loading and they have all worked fine.  I have never hit the "Carb Depletion" wall in a marathon.  I just keep refining to find the method that leaves me the least bloated and the lightest for the race.

                                 

                                I am to thepoint were I get 60-70% of my calories from liquids the day before the race.  (Endurox, Slim Fast, Whey Protein, Gatorade)  That could get a little dangerous with potential GI problems for someone.

                                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35