Goal of Sub-3 Hour Marathon (Read 15819 times)

    Rotorua Marathon race report May 2nd 2009 : 3:00:21

    ... snip ...

    Now it is all on for my next Marathon: Auckland Marathon on November 1st 2009 - goal time 2:59:00


    Almost 6 months later, and 5 days before my (next) proclaimed shot at a sub 3 hr marathon and I'm finally throwing in the towel on this attempt. I'm going for a cautious and long-term approach to properly get over injuries before I have another go at a marathon - probably in another 6 months time.I was probably too aggressive in ramping up my weekly distance - injury forced 10km/week to 110km/week over 8 weeks - and the injury genie decided to greet me again. Oh well - live and learn.

    Running - cheaper than therapy

    Ger


      Guys, failed miserably in Dublin yesterday ran 3.07.53 Don't have my mile splits yet  as I left my gear bag with a friend ( I will post them later today ) but here are the splits I do have.

      10k     41.45

      Half    1.28.59

      30k     2.06.54   

       

       

      As you can probably tell by my posts last week I was really anxious and nervous.  I thought that this would settle down once the race began but it never really happened I fely anxious and never really settled all I kept thinking about was gettting to the 20 mile mark and hanging on for the last 10k.  I fely as if I was working from mile 1 and things really started to do bad from around 21 miles on, I had to stop on 5 to 6 occasions to walk and the began running again then I was physically sick with the energy gels. If anyone had offered me a lift to the finish at this stage I would have took it.

      I am in a bad way physically today but I am more worried about the physological damage that this has done to me I feel like I will never get it, I know its only 7m 53s but it migh as well be a million miles.

       

      The only crumb of comfort that I have is the I averaged 7.10 per mile and this was the pace I did on my last 20 mile run.

      If I ever pick myself up again I think I will try and do a couple of 20 milers at a faster than sub 3hr pace and also maybe throw in a 24miler also.

       

      Thanks for all you help and If anyone has any similar experience or advice on what I shlould do no please let me know.

       

      I have been off work for a year now due to the economy etc and may never have the chance to train as hard again.

       

      Please help!

        

       My ultimate goal is still a sub 3 - but I just dont know.

       

      Splits

       

      <colgroup><col width="64" style="width: 48pt;" span="2" /></colgroup>
      1 6.31
      2 6.43
      3 6.50
      4 6.35
      5 6.34
      6 6.43
      7 6.37
      8 6.40
      9 6.36
      10 6.54
      11 6.37
      12 6.50
      13 6.54
      14 6.55
      15 6.41
      16 7.12
      17 6.37
      18 6.38
      19 7.00
      20 7.58
      21 9.13
      21 6.59
      23 8.09
      24 7.58
      25 9.02
      26 7.34
      0.42 2.52


      My salty dogs

        Ger,

        Your reflections will get you there.  Regardless of my time, each marathon teaches me a valuable lesson.

        I agree with your thought-- I believe 2-4 runs over 20 (up to 24) will be your key to hitting the sub three in your next attempt and keep you there. 

        From what splits you shows, it looks like you ran a smart first half.


        (I was told by a friend that I would likely get slammed the first time I posted here-- so let it rip)


          Ger, the below is a recipe for disaster. Here's why:

           

          1. I don't think you want to run extending periods of miles during a long run at a pace that you might not be in shape to do.

          2. Running 20 miles @ GMP is basically a race effort and will totally destroy any other training you have planned around those runs.

          3. Its unnecessary.

           

          The 24 miler at a slow pace is fine, but running 20 @ GMP is not. For all of my long runs, I have never averaged < 7 mpm on any of them. Yes I have run some miles @ GMP, but the max I've ever done in a long run is 15. My fastest paces 20 miler ever is 7:08/mile.

           

          In my opinion you might be helped more by following a structured plan (i.e. Pfitz's Advanced Marathoning). Its worked wonders for me this year... His longest run @ GMP is 12 miles in 18-20 mile long runs.  

           

          If I ever pick myself up again I think I will try and do a couple of 20 milers at a faster than sub 3hr pace and also maybe throw in a 24miler also.


            Ken, well done.  SV Marathon is not an easy course and I think the weather heat up a bit towards the end for you guys as well.  Congratulations on another sub 3 run. 

             

            Disclaimer: I am not a sub3 aspirant, at least not yet.

            Nice run, Bob.  Tough day out there. To be honest, I've had much, much worse so it's good. 

            I did see maniac Rudy at the park after the marathon.  He asked me if I had run 2:55.  He was going one way and I was going another (we were leaving) so didn't have time to talk to him but I told him I had run the 2:59.  Later I was wondering how he knew I was trying for 2:55!  I thought maybe it had been you! 

            We have to get together at one of these races.  JimHowe was there, though he didn't run.  Here's some pictures my wife took of the start and then at the 26 mile marker.  Maniac Rudy is in there.  I think I finished 9 or 10 but don't really know.  Caveat - These pics were uploaded for my family to see so that's why there's so many (I'm in the red/white/blue West Valley singlet at the end of the string).  Good shots of 1 and 2 battling it out.

             

            Ken

             

            MTA - Photos courtesy of my wife, Kathy.

             

            Silicon Valley


            Right on Hereford...

              In my opinion you might be helped more by following a structured plan (i.e. Pfitz's Advanced Marathoning). Its worked wonders for me this year... His longest run @ GMP is 12 miles in 18-20 mile long runs.  

               

               

               

              +1 on the structured plan suggestion (and DCV's advice against the 20-mile MP runs, too). I followed Pfitz pretty closely and it worked for me. I was also running 60+ mpw for 6 months before starting the 18/70 plan, by the way. I'm sure that helped.

               

              DCV, the new edition of Pfitz's book has 14 @ GMP in an 18-mile run.

               

              Ger, don't be discouraged. You will get there if you keep at it. You ran a good effort. You were probably in shape for a 3:04 with better pacing, so you're closer than you think.

                Ger,

                 

                Believe me, I know how you must feel. It's can be agonizing to train as hard as you have for the past several months only to miss your goal. I have been trying to deal with the emotions stemming from my failed attempt at sub 3 back on 10/11 in Chicago. It's not easy.

                 

                Hang in there--you'll get your sub 3. And given your PRs at the shorter distances, I'm willing to guess that you'll get there soon!

                Modern Era PRs (2012 and later): 5K--19:05 (December 2012), 10K--40:10 (January 2013), HM--1:27:17(July 2012), MAR--3:06:01 (September 2012), "Road" 50K--4:03:42 (March 2012)

                Ger


                   

                  +1 on the structured plan suggestion (and DCV's advice against the 20-mile MP runs, too). I followed Pfitz pretty closely and it worked for me. I was also running 60+ mpw for 6 months before starting the 18/70 plan, by the way. I'm sure that helped.

                   

                  DCV, the new edition of Pfitz's book has 14 @ GMP in an 18-mile run.

                   

                  Ger, don't be discouraged. You will get there if you keep at it. You ran a good effort. You were probably in shape for a 3:04 with better pacing, so you're closer than you think.

                   

                  Would you go with the 55 or 70 programme?

                    Ger - Sounds more of a mental block than a running issue.  You were anxious and never settled in.  Felt like it was difficult beginning in the first mile?   DCV and others are right on about training and a structured program.  You should be physically and mentally ready when you complete that.  I'd say if you can handle the 70 program; there's what you should do.   Miles brings endurance and confidence.

                     

                    Got my Boston confirmation yesterday.  And my wife got her first ever Boston confirmation yesterday.  She is elated!

                     

                    Keep running

                     

                    NACN - I see you posting on the other forum.   You too will achieve your goal.  Hang in there.

                    ksrunr All American 10K Feb. '10 Cowtown Half marathon Feb. '10 Boston '10

                      Unlucky Ger. Speaking as someone who has tried and failed twice now for a sub 3 when I was convinced it was mine, I know exactly the disappointment you are feeling.

                       

                       From your posts it did seem you were veering slightly towards a neurotic mindset when from your times I'm sure you have the ability to crack sub 3 if you took a slightly more 'what ever will be will be' attitude! This isn't to say I don't think you should do everything you can in order to prepare and give yourself the best opportunity but somethings are out of your control and to worry about them is to waste precious energy. In my recent attempt in Amsterdam I was obviously far better trained than for my first but a lot of what made the marathon easier was the relaxed approach I took to running the first half. Don't check your watch every 10 strides but rather break the race down into 5km chunks and as long as you are within 20-30secs of the required pace for each of these the larger goal takes care of itself.

                       

                      I too was questioning could I ever have such a set of circumstances present themselves again where I could devote such an effort to a race but rather than think this, concentrate on how much your running will have improved over the training period and how well equipped you will be when you next take up the baton.

                       

                      Take pride in battling through those tough miles and enjoy a spell of pressure free running - you'll soon be chomping at the bit again. I know I am.

                        Seriously tempted to go for Boston next April. I know it's a great race but how would you guys who have run it before rate it as a course to go for a sub 3 on? I know a lot of you were successful this year.


                        I'm back!

                           

                          Would you go with the 55 or 70 programme?

                            

                          If you have the mileage base, go with 70. 

                           

                          What did it for me this year was:

                           

                          1. Pfitz 70 (2nd edition, with more MP runs)

                          2. Daily exercises, also from Pfitz 2nd edition (3x core, 2x strength, 2x stretching per week)

                          3. Weekly sports massage (probably not necessary, but felt good, and gave me good feedback on how various muscles were doing)

                          4. Oh yeah, and dropping 10 pounds!


                          I'm back!

                            Seriously tempted to go for Boston next April. I know it's a great race but how would you guys who have run it before rate it as a course to go for a sub 3 on? I know a lot of you were successful this year.

                              

                            I happen to think it's a fast course. I've run negative splits there the past three years, and ran my first (so far only) sub-3 there this year. There are faster courses, but I think it's faster than a flat course. The trick is that to run it fast, you have to pace it exactly right based on your fitness. You want to hit the hills with just enough reserves so that you can get through them comfortably and hammer out the final miles, but not with so much reserves that you leave too much on the course. It's less forgiving of mistakes than most courses.

                              Ger, your Dublin race was not a miserable fail!  You did pretty darn well and can be proud of that race.    Don't feel bad about things 'going bad' after mile 20 - it's pretty much what everyone feels (the dark miles).  Training and experience at the distance will help you deal with those miles in the future - keep at it as you are very close.  

                               

                              Congrats on your fine effort.

                               

                              PS - Dublin is a fast race!  The Ethiopian that won ran 2:09 at the age of 19!  Whoa!!

                                I agree with Bob, Boston is not a bad course to try to run fast. 

                                It has just enough ups/downs (and none are steep) to mix it up a little and point-to-point helps as well.  Take Bob's advice about pacing as he nailed it this year!  For many years 2:58 at Boston was my PR though I had tried to go sub-3 on other supposedly flat and fast courses.  Still is my second fastest time ever.