Goal of Sub-3 Hour Marathon (Read 15825 times)

    Guys, failed miserably in Dublin yesterday

     

     

    Nah, that's not a miserable failure. You had a goal and you went for it. You were on pace for 20 miles and then had to gut it out to finish.

    Miserable failure is failing to try.

    That was a glorious failure.

    That's my story and I'm sticking to it....

    John

    Goal: Age grade over 80% on a certified course.
    DoppleBock


       

       

      Nah, that's not a miserable failure. You had a goal and you went for it. You were on pace for 20 miles and then had to gut it out to finish.

      Miserable failure is failing to try.

      That was a glorious failure.

      That's my story and I'm sticking to it....

      John

       

      +1

       

      Your are a lot closer than you think - You could have run an even pace that yielded 3:02, but whats the fun in that - You went for it and gutted it out.

      http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

      2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

       


      I'm back!

        Your are a lot closer than you think - You could have run an even pace that yielded 3:02, but whats the fun in that - You went for it and gutted it out.

          

        Agreed. You're like 2 minutes away, not 8.

        Ger


          Guys thanks for all the encouragement and advice, i have just this minute placed an order for Advanced Marathoning 2nd Edition book, I have also entered the Belfast City Marathon on the 3rd May 2010.

          I am going to take 2 weeks completely off running now and then do 6-7 weeks no pressure running up until Christmas which will leave me 17 weeks next year before Belfast.  Keep the faith everyone we WILL get there.

          DoppleBock


            I am 26 days out to the Harpeth Hills Flying Monkey Marathon - TN and need a bit of miracle to get under 3:00.  I am told that I can take my normal marathon time and add 10 minutes to get to my Monkey time.   With current weight @ 213# and fitness level in the 2:58-3:00 range it will be a long shot.

             

            #1)  I have been avg between 25-30 BPW (Beer per Week) - I need to give it up for the next 26 days

            #2)  I need to lose 8 -13 pounds - See #1

            #3)  The easiest part - I need to get 2 more Vo2 max and 3 more LAT workouts in

            #4)  Run good mileage, but nothing crazy

             

            I have a feeling I will land in 3:02-3:05 @ Monkey.

             

            IF I can get my 5k (vox max) Down to below 5:50 (current 6:00ish) and my LAT down to 6:11 (Current 6:24) I will have a shot at another sub 3:00

             

            Although I might have graduated a few times - I keep coming back as this group is all close in ability and its nice to get and give feedback.

             

            http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

            2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

             


            I'm back!

               I am told that I can take my normal marathon time and add 10 minutes to get to my Monkey time. 

                

              Given the elevation profile, I find that hard to understand; my guess would be more like adding half an hour. In fact I was thinking the Monkey could be a PW for me, my first > 4.

               

              Yet, looking at previous times for people I know, a 10-minute penalty doesn't seem that far out.

               

              But yes, you will have your work cut out for you. BPW... ha.   Good luck. I'll see you there.


              The King of Beasts

                I am 26 days out to the Harpeth Hills Flying Monkey Marathon - TN and need a bit of miracle to get under 3:00.  I am told that I can take my normal marathon time and add 10 minutes to get to my Monkey time.   With current weight @ 213# and fitness level in the 2:58-3:00 range it will be a long shot.

                 

                #1)  I have been avg between 25-30 BPW (Beer per Week) - I need to give it up for the next 26 days

                #2)  I need to lose 8 -13 pounds - See #1

                #3)  The easiest part - I need to get 2 more Vo2 max and 3 more LAT workouts in

                #4)  Run good mileage, but nothing crazy

                 

                I have a feeling I will land in 3:02-3:05 @ Monkey.

                 

                IF I can get my 5k (vox max) Down to below 5:50 (current 6:00ish) and my LAT down to 6:11 (Current 6:24) I will have a shot at another sub 3:00

                 

                Although I might have graduated a few times - I keep coming back as this group is all close in ability and its nice to get and give feedback.

                 

                 

                What you really need to focus on is drinking the Hard stuff, no more beer.  And quit running, you will hurt your knees. 

                 

                Also: focus on gaining 13-22 pounds, why would you want to lose weight, Oh & stay away from any and all hills for the next 26 days, you want to be "fresh" when you get into the so called "hills" of the Monkey.

                 

                Okay, it looks like I have got you set up with a good plan.  My job here is done.

                "As a dreamer of dreams and a travelin' man I have chalked up many a mile. Read dozens of books about heroes and crooks, And I've learned much from both of their styles." ~ Jimmy Buffett

                 

                "I don't see much sense in that," said Rabbit. "No," said Pooh humbly, "there isn't. But there was going to be when I began it. It's just that something happened to it along the way."”

                DoppleBock


                  A1 and I have a 6 pack riding on this race - So he is just trying to help .... his cause.

                   

                  Bhearn - See you there!

                  http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                  2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                   

                    I am 26 days out to the Harpeth Hills Flying Monkey Marathon - TN and need a bit of miracle to get under 3:00.  I am told that I can take my normal marathon time and add 10 minutes to get to my Monkey time.   With current weight @ 213# and fitness level in the 2:58-3:00 range it will be a long shot.

                     

                    #1)  I have been avg between 25-30 BPW (Beer per Week) - I need to give it up for the next 26 days

                    #2)  I need to lose 8 -13 pounds - See #1

                    #3)  The easiest part - I need to get 2 more Vo2 max and 3 more LAT workouts in

                    #4)  Run good mileage, but nothing crazy

                     

                    I have a feeling I will land in 3:02-3:05 @ Monkey.

                     

                    IF I can get my 5k (vox max) Down to below 5:50 (current 6:00ish) and my LAT down to 6:11 (Current 6:24) I will have a shot at another sub 3:00

                     

                    Although I might have graduated a few times - I keep coming back as this group is all close in ability and its nice to get and give feedback.

                     

                     

                     

                    DB,

                    With the amount of miles you run and the hilly terrain available, endurance, and pacing should not be a major factor on race day.  You'll know how to manage your pace better than any of us and probably be able to adjust on the fly where most of us would have ruined our legs before we knew we screwed up.  

                     

                    They say for every 5 pounds, you take 5 seconds off your marathon pace.  I don't know if losing 15 lbs is reasonable for you, but if you did, I'd say you have it in the bank.  Beyond that, I'd say focus on lot's of very short speed intervals/track work.  Although this may be the least favorite workout for endurance runners, personally, it seems to be the quickest way to increase overall speed for me. 

                     

                    I realize this is kind of like the student giving advice to the teacher, so take it for what it is worth...  Good luck!

                    xor


                        

                      Given the elevation profile, I find that hard to understand; my guess would be more like adding half an hour. In fact I was thinking the Monkey could be a PW for me, my first > 4.

                       

                      Yet, looking at previous times for people I know, a 10-minute penalty doesn't seem that far out.

                       

                      But yes, you will have your work cut out for you. BPW... ha.   Good luck. I'll see you there.

                       

                      I have no business being in this thread except to say... no, Bob.  Unless you are dinged or something, fear not a super-4.  I ran a sub-4 for criminy's sake and I wasn't even racing.  BUT, I'd say the penalty is between 10-30 minutes depending on your normal race speed and how you approach it. 

                       


                      I'm back!

                         

                        I have no business being in this thread except to say... no, Bob.  Unless you are dinged or something, fear not a super-4.  I ran a sub-4 for criminy's sake and I wasn't even racing.  BUT, I'd say the penalty is between 10-30 minutes depending on your normal race speed and how you approach it. 

                          

                        Yeah... you were one of the "people I know" I used for reference.  Given where we are in our respective training cycles, I wouldn't be surprised to find us running pretty close together this time.

                        Ger


                          Ger, the below is a recipe for disaster. Here's why:

                           

                          1. I don't think you want to run extending periods of miles during a long run at a pace that you might not be in shape to do.

                          2. Running 20 miles @ GMP is basically a race effort and will totally destroy any other training you have planned around those runs.

                          3. Its unnecessary.

                           

                          The 24 miler at a slow pace is fine, but running 20 @ GMP is not. For all of my long runs, I have never averaged < 7 mpm on any of them. Yes I have run some miles @ GMP, but the max I've ever done in a long run is 15. My fastest paces 20 miler ever is 7:08/mile.

                           

                          In my opinion you might be helped more by following a structured plan (i.e. Pfitz's Advanced Marathoning). Its worked wonders for me this year... His longest run @ GMP is 12 miles in 18-20 mile long runs.  

                           

                           

                           

                          Thanks I agree with you, yesterday I was still raw after my dissapointment on Monday .

                           

                          Firstly let me explain my reasoning for planning what I was planning yesterday was that I was/still am  having trouble getting my head around the fact that in a marathon I have to get to 20 miles faster than I ever run 20 miles and then tag on a 10k at the end.

                           

                          Firstly the idea behind doing the 20 mile run and a slightly faster than marathon pace was that this would give me the confidence that when I get to 20 miles in the marathon I know that it is not the fastest 20 miles I have ever ran.

                           

                          Secondly the idea behind the 24+ mile run was that not only now would I know that I could get to 20 miles at a slower place but also over it, the paln was to make the 24+ mile a 3hour + run.

                           

                          IMy thinking is that not only will I have ran the first 20 miles at a faster pace than my PMP but also I will now have ran 24+ miles and also ran for a longer time than I will be running in the marathon

                           

                          I am really a confidence runner and I think that this would help me in my next attempt.

                           

                          Please everyone let me know what you think.  My 10k times and half marathon times all point to a sub 3 but nothing factors for the last 10k of the marathon.

                           

                          Lastly just a question to throw out there I see on a lot of marathon pace predictor charts there is an element allowed for fading a certain % of time per mile from a certain point in a marathon.  I was just wondering is there any guideline for this as to what to use when calculating this.  So in the end you end up with a race pace/ pre-fade pace and post fade pace.

                           

                              

                            Yeah... you were one of the "people I know" I used for reference.  Given where we are in our respective training cycles, I wouldn't be surprised to find us running pretty close together this time.

                             

                             

                            Last year I ran the monkey 18 minutes slower than I had run my lifetime PR marathon on a flat course 6 weeks prior and I wasn't even trying at the monkey and had a vasectomy in between the two.

                             

                            I'd say monkey is about 6-10 minutes slower than a flat course if you're racing all out.  Maybe a little less for the really fast and maybe a little more for the really slow.  And the recovery is less than for a flat marathon.

                            Runners run.

                            DoppleBock


                              I run -0- hills, so I am training like its the upper end = 10 minutes

                              http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                              2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                               

                              flovesparko


                                 

                                Thanks I agree with you, yesterday I was still raw after my dissapointment on Monday .

                                 

                                Firstly let me explain my reasoning for planning what I was planning yesterday was that I was/still am  having trouble getting my head around the fact that in a marathon I have to get to 20 miles faster than I ever run 20 miles and then tag on a 10k at the end.

                                 

                                Firstly the idea behind doing the 20 mile run and a slightly faster than marathon pace was that this would give me the confidence that when I get to 20 miles in the marathon I know that it is not the fastest 20 miles I have ever ran.

                                 

                                Secondly the idea behind the 24+ mile run was that not only now would I know that I could get to 20 miles at a slower place but also over it, the paln was to make the 24+ mile a 3hour + run.

                                 

                                IMy thinking is that not only will I have ran the first 20 miles at a faster pace than my PMP but also I will now have ran 24+ miles and also ran for a longer time than I will be running in the marathon

                                 

                                I am really a confidence runner and I think that this would help me in my next attempt.

                                 

                                Please everyone let me know what you think.  My 10k times and half marathon times all point to a sub 3 but nothing factors for the last 10k of the marathon.

                                 

                                Lastly just a question to throw out there I see on a lot of marathon pace predictor charts there is an element allowed for fading a certain % of time per mile from a certain point in a marathon.  I was just wondering is there any guideline for this as to what to use when calculating this.  So in the end you end up with a race pace/ pre-fade pace and post fade pace.

                                 

                                 Ger, the problem with running long (24 plus) or too many runs at marathon pace and over 14 miles at MP is that it wears the body out and you are too tired  to do the next workout. Proper recovery is important.   I'm not sure your age but if you are young you probably can get  away with it.  In my early 30's, I only ran my long runs at marathon pace 6:53 at the time, I knew nothing about training.  I did manage to run a 3:02 off that kind of training but I'm sure I would have been faster with the right training.  I still wouldn't recommend training like this.  I am now in my early 40's and have PR every distance this year due to proper training paces and mileage.  AND BECAUSE OF ALL THE POSTERS ON THIS THREAD WITH GREAT ADVICE.   Even splits are the best way to run a marathon for the average runner and they say to run a pace for your half marathon split that will allow a 1-2% fade in the last half.    What work for me this year is that I finally got my miles over 50 per week with peak weeks averaging mid 60's.  But once again it is not just the mileage it  is the proper pace for each run.