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Basic Tempo Run Question (Read 1218 times)

    Confused I'm pretty new to running, and right now I'm training for a 1/2 marathon. On Thursday I have a tempo run on my training plan that says I have to do 1 mile warm up, 4 miles at an 8:30 pace (I know, I'm slow), and a 1 mile cool down. I find that I do better just running my fast pace right out of the gate rather than running a warm up pace and then speeding up to my fast pace. Is that okay for a tempo training run? Will it hurt my training at all to do 4 miles right off the bat at 8:30, and then do a 2 mile cool down (at probably a 9:45)? That is what I would prefer to do. Any help would be great! Thanks, Michael
    jeffdonahue


      I would probably do the warm-up. One other thing this will help you to get used to is negative splitting - running for a while and then picking up the pace later in the race.


      #2867

        You probably could get away with it, but I still recommend the warm up. Aside from getting used to picking up the pace mid-run, it will also leave you less vulnerable to injuring yourself. If that 8:30 pace is easy for you, then maybe you should use that as your warm up and then run a faster pace.

        Run to Win
        25 Marathons, 17 Ultras, 16 States (Full List)

          The warmup is important and something that all good runners do. I agree with Run to Win on tbis one: "If that 8:30 pace is easy for you, then maybe you should use that as your warm up and then run a faster pace." I think it's an illusion that you run better with no warmup--I'm nearly certain that it is.
          Age 60 plus best times: 5k 19:00, 10k 38:35, 10m 1:05:30, HM 1:24:09, 30k 2:04:33
            You should always warm up. Tempo runs are speed work and speed work is hard on the body. A pulled quad or hamstring will put an end to your half marathon dreams (ask me how I know). Tom


            Prince of Fatness

              You should always warm up. Tempo runs are speed work and speed work is hard on the body. A pulled quad or hamstring will put an end to your half marathon dreams (ask me how I know). Tom
              +1 (After you're done hearing Tom's answer come talk to me)

              Not at it at all. 

                Argh! You guys are making it tough on me. Well, I guess I'll take your word(s) for it and do the run the way I'm suposed to. Well, I appreciate the responses and the advice. Thanks a lot! -Michael


                SMART Approach

                  Totally agree with the above, but in a pinch for time I have done 1/2 mile warm up and ok. Going right at it is a bit of stress to system and you may start a bit too fast even creating a bit of oxygen debt defeating purpose of work out. Nice to ease into it. I definitely feel 1 mile and preferably 2 miles would be better and then do your tempo and some cooldown miles make for an awesome conditioning effect.

                  Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

                  Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

                  Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique

                  www.smartapproachtraining.com


                  Junior Amphibian

                    Confused I'm pretty new to running, and right now I'm training for a 1/2 marathon. On Thursday I have a tempo run on my training plan that says I have to do 1 mile warm up, 4 miles at an 8:30 pace (I know, I'm slow), and a 1 mile cool down. I find that I do better just running my fast pace right out of the gate rather than running a warm up pace and then speeding up to my fast pace. Is that okay for a tempo training run? Will it hurt my training at all to do 4 miles right off the bat at 8:30, and then do a 2 mile cool down (at probably a 9:45)? That is what I would prefer to do.
                    Tempo run at the 8:30 pace is nonsense. Tempo runs should be done at 80-85% of your max heart rate, which for most people is where their threshhold is (i.e. where they switch from aerobic to anaerobic running). This means that this number will be different for everyone, especially for beginners. There are methods of precisely estimating your tempo with VDOT calculators, but basically it's the tempo that allows you to run for a 5-6 miles at your top speed. If that tempo is 10 min/mile pace, that's perfect for you and you shouldn't try to run any faster. You should do always do a warmup. You may dislike it because it seems to sap your energy and your main workout is slower, but actually by performing a warmup you'll be able to run much longer than without it.

                    "People ask why I run. I say, 'If you have to ask, you will never understand'. It is something only those select few know. Those who put themselves through pain, but know, deep down, how good it really feels." - Erin Leonard

                      I've done a lot of tempo runs and I have no idea what 80-85% of my max HR is. I agree that you shoudl warm up first though. In fact I think tempo runs are best when they happen spontaneously. As in you're rolling along a few miles into a ho-hum 8 miler and decide to pick up the pace for a few miles. Don't get too fine on the pace of tempo runs.

                      Runners run

                      JakeKnight


                        I've done a lot of tempo runs and I have no idea what 80-85% of my max HR is.
                        Try the search function. It'll help you figure that out.

                        E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
                        -----------------------------


                        SMART Approach

                          Tempo run at the 8:30 pace is nonsense. Tempo runs should be done at 80-85% of your max heart rate, which for most people is where their threshhold is (i.e. where they switch from aerobic to anaerobic running). This means that this number will be different for everyone, especially for beginners. There are methods of precisely estimating your tempo with VDOT calculators, but basically it's the tempo that allows you to run for a 5-6 miles at your top speed. If that tempo is 10 min/mile pace, that's perfect for you and you shouldn't try to run any faster. You should do always do a warmup. You may dislike it because it seems to sap your energy and your main workout is slower, but actually by performing a warmup you'll be able to run much longer than without it.
                          80-85% is not true tempo run. Actually that 80-85% of max HR is kind of place where it is too fast for training runs but not fast enough for lactate threshold. I do find that pace valuable in long runs if using long runs as a quality work out. I do occasional long runs with many of the miles at 80-82% of max HR without stress as half marathon approaches and these runs are well over an hour. I count this as a quality work out. As mentioned a tempo run is a pace you can run for about an hour. My last 15k I ran in a bit over an hour and my average HR was 93% of max HR and I was fit. My last half marathon was run at 90-91% of max HR. When I do fast tempo intervals or the classic Daniel's like tempo, my HR is generally around 90% of max HR. When I do slower tempos (but more miles-for me 5-6 miles or 35-45 min)) my HR is generally around 85-88% of my max HR (88% toward end). Your fitness plays a part in this also as do weather conditions. BUT, as mentioned above, tempos should be run by feel or use pace not HR because HR varies so much each day depending on many factors. When one is more experienced, you just know what this pace feels like. Generally, tempo pace is around 30-35 sec. slower than what you can run a 5K race today and a 20-25 min run is sufficient. If doing tempo intervals, you can go a tad faster and do 3-5 X 1 mile. Slower tempo pace is around 50-60 sec. slower than current 5K race pace. Certainly, there are charts that break it down more exact but this is not necessary. If you are doing fast tempos, you run pretty fast but not race like. If doing slow tempos, you are working but still somewhat comfortable. Think about that way if you don't want to focus on pace or HR.

                          Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

                          Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

                          Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique

                          www.smartapproachtraining.com

                            I'm not the most experienced runner here by a long shot but I do know that these guys are not messing around. I started doing the negative split thing because of the advice I received here and after a month my average pace drop almost 30 seconds a mile. The warm up may feel uncomfortable at first but by mile 4 you'll be moving faster and feeling better than if you hadn't.

                            My sport's your sport's punishment

                             

                            2012 goals

                                          

                            100 Km month         150 K month      200K month

                            5K run    10K run     20K run              30K run

                            sub 30 min 5K         sub 55min 10K

                              I always do a 1 mi. warmup and 1 mi. cooldown after hard runs. I use the time to psyche myself up for the oncoming workout I'm going to put myself through. I try to visualize what it will be like running at that pace, where I'm going to go, how I'm going to maintain my form and breathing, etc. By the time the warmup is done I'm ready and eager to go and slaughter those hard miles! My 2 cents.


                              Junior Amphibian

                                80-85% is not true tempo run. Actually that 80-85% of max HR is kind of place where it is too fast for training runs but not fast enough for lactate threshold. I do find that pace valuable in long runs if using long runs as a quality work out. I do occasional long runs with many of the miles at 80-82% of max HR without stress as half marathon approaches and these runs are well over an hour. I count this as a quality work out.
                                You're right. In well conditioned athletes it's going to be higher and closer to 88%-93% of the max HR.

                                "People ask why I run. I say, 'If you have to ask, you will never understand'. It is something only those select few know. Those who put themselves through pain, but know, deep down, how good it really feels." - Erin Leonard

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