Boston Marathon 2012 (Read 2365 times)


I'm back!

    89, thank you. But I think the implication was that Badwater is more about heat tolerance than about running. I'm not qualified to venture an opinion about that, but the heat aspect of it definitely does not appeal to me.


    A Sweetheart

      But I think the implication was that Badwater is more about heat tolerance than about running.

       

      Which I would disagree with to some extent.  Like everything else in running it is about training your body to do its best on race day.  Heat training for Badwater is taken VERY seriously.  Not just to survive, but to do one's best.  It is still a competitive race.  You don't go out there and just hope to hang on.  You do specific work in order to be able to run strong.

       

      It has been proven that heat training works, but no one wants to do it.  The same people who will do hill repeats when their race is hilly, speed work in order to run fast, and long runs for long races are willing to gamble that it won't be hot on race day.

      I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

       

      Tennessee Beer Mile Queen

      xor


        There's a whooooole lot that makes Badwater different from Boston, which ultimately ended up at 89 but started at 70ish, for which you and I were out there for 3:20-3:53.  I dunno, one word posts where the one word is something like"relevant" puzzle me.

         

        One thing... you go into Badwater (135 miles, nasty ass climbs, super high temps and really cold temps at night, etc etc etc etc) knowing to get ready for hot.  Not sure anyone would have put "heat training!" into their Boston arsenal. And by the time we knew, it was too late to do anything except suck it up (meaning: factor it in and deal) or not.

         

        It was a very hot day... for Boston.  Anything resembling Badwater is kind of lost on me.

         

        Way better schwag and aid stations at Boston.  And cheaper by far.

         


        I'm back!

          My point above was that I personally see heat training / tolerance as fundamentally different from other types of training. It doesn't really have anything to do with running, except that some races are hot. Hill repeats, speed work, long runs, those are all inherently running related.

           

          Running in the heat is hard, and you can do better if you do heat training, but there are a lot of things one could do that are hard, but are still pointless. Why do we have running races, but not competitions to see who can bang their head against a concrete wall the hardest without passing out? Because that's stupid and pointless. Like running in the heat is, to me.

           

          To take your point about gambling that it won't be hot, we'd have to get a little more specific... say, we're talking about somebody who wants to run sub-3 at Boston, who's right on the edge. They do lots of hill repeats, speedwork, and long runs. But they don't do much heat training. Is that a misallocation of training resources? No, because to run a PR you have to assume good conditions as a given.

           

          Of course, nobody would think of running Badwater without tons of heat training.


          A Dance with Monkeys

            nobody would think of running Badwater without tons of heat training.

             

             I probably would.


            I'm back!

              ... Boston, which ultimately ended up at 89 but started at 70ish, for which you and I were out there for 3:20-3:53.  

               

              Nit, it was 79 in Hopkinton at 10 am (though they told us over the speakers it was already over 80). Probably was over 80 for the 2nd wave.

               

              It hit 89 in Newton by 12:30, when we were still out there.


              A Sweetheart

                 because to run a PR you have to assume good conditions as a given.

                 

                 

                So if the conditions aren't going to be ideal for a PR you don't want to be competitive or do your best?  You may not PR, but with heat training you can finish higher in your age group, or whoop up on someone that didn't prepare for the heat.  Plus, for all that money you spend (especially at Boston) you have a much more enjoyable experience that doesn't turn into a death march.

                 

                What's the worst case scenario?   You heat trained and you don't need it.  You wasted three weeks of three to four 30 minute sessions.  It seems like nothing compared to all the hard work and miles that people put into training for the race.  

                I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                 

                Tennessee Beer Mile Queen


                I'm back!

                  So if the conditions aren't going to be ideal for a PR you don't want to be competitive or do your best?  You may not PR, but with heat training you can finish higher in your age group, or whoop up on someone that didn't prepare for the heat.  Plus, for all that money you spend (especially at Boston) you have a much more enjoyable experience that doesn't turn into a death march.

                   

                  What's the worst case scenario?   You heat trained and you don't need it.  You wasted three weeks of three to four 30 minute sessions.  It seems like nothing compared to all the hard work and miles that people put into training for the race.  

                   

                  Speaking for myself... it's really hard to know what doing one's best meant at Boston this year. I went in with a PR of 2:58:41. There's a big feeling of satisfaction for (a) breaking 3, (b) PRing. But it doesn't mean that much to me to place ~1300 (last year) vs ~1700 (this year). You can avoid a death march by pacing appropriately, which I did, without heat training. Actually, appropriate pacing made a much bigger difference than heat training, I think. I certainly whooped up on a lot of people faster than me who paced badly.

                   

                  Better, from my perspective, to save it for another race. Which is why Big Sur is now my spring goal race. I can't PR on that course, but at least I'll be racing, rather than just enduring.

                   

                  Three weeks of heat training would not have helped me PR at Boston. They might have, granted, if it had be 70ish instead of 90ish.

                     I prefer to call it more of an internet-jibberish dialect thank you.

                     

                    Translation: Does help. Liberally applied to all toes and the forefoot and heel. There were moments when my right foot was water-logged due to pouring water on my legs or running through sprinklers. I usually get blisters during marathons. This one I did not.

                     

                    Can someone who speaks Tonto translate this -- Vaseline does or doesn't help when you're water-logged?  'Prec.


                    A Sweetheart

                       

                      Three weeks of heat training would not have helped me PR at Boston. 

                       

                      Of course not.  Heat training doesn't make it feel like it is 60 degrees.  But it helps.  Especially during the spring when people haven't gotten used to warm temps yet.  

                       

                      Here is another great reason to do it.  It can benefit performances in cool temps.  (Yes, it is a small study.)

                      I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                       

                      Tennessee Beer Mile Queen

                         I prefer to call it more of an internet-jibberish dialect thank you.

                         

                        Translation: Does help. Liberally applied to all toes and the forefoot and heel. There were moments when my right foot was water-logged due to pouring water on my legs or running through sprinklers. I usually get blisters during marathons. This one I did not.

                        Thanks!  My fat fingers are fluent in Internet-gibberish; we must be from different parts of the country.  Hopefully, our toes can bridge this gap and share the common bond of slimy but intact skin.

                        “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

                          bhearn, I'm reminded of golf.  I had friends who would not play if it was windy (beyond breezy) or raining; they reasoned that they wouldn't score near their best, so why waste the greens fees and spousal goodwill?  Similarly, I know people who won't run hilly courses because they won't have a chance at a PR.

                           

                          I figured it depended on what the focus was.  Battling the scorecard (or clock, in the case of running), I can see their/your point.  Trying to do one's best with what one's been dealt that day (everyone plays the same course/races the same course) regardless of scorecard/clock, I can see WG's point.

                           

                          Nothing's inherently wrong with either approach, of course.  I like(d) the battle when it came to golf, but I prefer facing the clock with my running.

                          “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman


                          I'm back!

                            I figured it depended on what the focus was.  Battling the scorecard (or clock, in the case of running), I can see their/your point.  Trying to do one's best with what one's been dealt that day (everyone plays the same course/races the same course) regardless of scorecard/clock, I can see WG's point. 

                             

                            Yeah, for me, it all depends on the race and the goals. For Boston, if I couldn't run fast, there wasn't any point for me in laying it all out there. The race was purely against the clock. At a smaller race, I'd care a lot more about AG placement. At pretty much any ultra, I assume doing one's best with what one's been dealt is part of the game.

                             

                            I will do some heat training for Western States, and put my all into it. (Though I do want a sub-24 buckle, and in that sense it's still a race against the clock.)


                            I'm back!

                              Six days later you run a 50 miler in 75 degree heat, come in 6th (4th masters... I was passed for 3rd in the last mile, dammit), and set a PR by 76 minutes.

                               

                              I did not wear the Sweet Jacket. 

                               

                              And by the way, Robert, congratulations. That's pretty impressive! But just think what you could have done wearing the jacket. 75 degrees is still cold for you, right?


                              A Sweetheart

                                 

                                I will do some heat training for Western States, and put my all into it. (Though I do want a sub-24 buckle, and in that sense it's still a race against the clock.)

                                 

                                Hell yeah.  I hope you get that buckle.  That is when I first started heat training (and looking like a fool at the gym).  It is necessary there.  It gets to be 110 in the canyons, plus that climb to Devil's Thumb is murder even without the heat.  That heat is weird and different (and more predictable) though, because it has less to do with the temps that day and more to do with that season.  If it has been hot, it just bakes everything in the canyon and then it stays super hot.

                                I want to do it because I want to do it.  -Amelia Earhart

                                 

                                Tennessee Beer Mile Queen