RunningAHEAD - Topic: Marathon Pacing Opinions

posted: 1/25/2008 at 8:29 AM

I am curious to to get some opinions on pacing a marathon. You would think after 15 3/4 marathons and numerous ultras I would have this figured out. I am running a marathon on 2/3/08 and hope to break 4 hrs. My plan is to go out around 9:10-9:15 for the first 10 miles or so and then begin to gradually pick up the pace and finish under 4 hrs. I ran the same marathon last year--Tallahassee--flat fast course and did 4:07. Trained well (50-60 milesper week--over a 1,000 miles of LHR) and was very fit for the Huntsville Marathon. At mile 2 I knew it wasn't my day--HR was 12-15 beats higher and I never got comfortable. Dropped out at 17 miles--would have stopped much earlier had someone offered a ride. I was on pace but it wasn't there. Thoughts on even pace/holding back for 8-10 miles (10-15 sec per mile) or staying around 9's untill the real 1/2 of a marathon--the 20 mile mark. Thanks for your thoughts. At 64, I would love to run faster than my first marathon back in 1977 (3:58)--plus I would qualify for Boston. Marathon PR was 3:16 waay back in 1985--at age 42. Didn't run another for 21 yrs until last Feb's 4:07. Thanks. Nick

mikeymike

posted: 1/25/2008 at 8:37 AM

I think the slightly negative split strategy is the best. Mind you I have yet to actually carry this out at the marathon distance but I've come close. If you're really ready to run sub 4 hours then 9:10 will feel really slow like you're holding back for the first 10 miles. Then just by gradually not holding back as much you should naturally get faster. My problem has been--in my last marathon for example--once I get past that initial holding back period I tend to pick it up too much. Not on purpose it just happens. My last marathon I started off about 8-10 secs per mile slower than goal pace and let myself gradually drift down to goal pace over the first 10 miles. The problem for me came in miles 10-17 or so, when I took my eye off the ball thinking I didn't need to hold back any more when in reality I did. I wound up running those miles a good 10 secs per mile too fast and pretty much torpedoed any chance for a great day. Still had a good day though, so I can't complain. The key, I think is to hold back until it's time to not hold back. My next marathon is Boston and I'm jogging all the way to the fire station. Good luck.

Runners run

Ben_1415

Hey, nice marmot!

posted: 1/25/2008 at 10:08 AM

Quote from Long Run Nick on 1/17/2008 at 4:37 PM:

Start off EZ--then back off.

Couldn't resist.

Ben

"The world is my country, science is my religion."-- Christiaan Huygens

Jim2

posted: 1/25/2008 at 10:16 AM

Your pace plan is good, as long as the course is reasonably consistent in both halves....relatively flat all the way or no more hilly in one half vs. the other....and you don't expect an appraciable temperature rise above about 60 degrees during the race....temps above 60 or brilliant sunshine usually have an unfavorable effect on pace. One caution....don't average slower than 9:15 over the first half. That pace will bring you to 13.1 miles in 2:01:05. Then you would need 1:58:54 in the second half to break 4-ours. That's doable. Any slower in the first half significantly compounds the challenge of the second half and puts sub-4 at risk. Actually, I prefer to break a marathon down into thirds (8-9 miles) instead of halves. I allow myself 5-10 sec/mile slower than goal pace range in the first third to calibrate how I "feel" on race morning and to conserve glycogen. I pick it up to goal pace in the second third so that I don't fall too far behind my goal. That brings me 1-2 minutes behind goal at about 18 miles. Then I race the last third with what I have left. If my goal is realistic, then I should have no problem picking up the 1-2 minutes and more. Good luck with your sub-4 goal at age 64. I ran 3:57:50 at age 60 with less than optimal training. So, you should have a good shot at it.

PacerChris

posted: 1/25/2008 at 11:01 AM

My 2 cents after having paced groups at several marathons... Assuming no massive hills, I try to break a marathon up into segments: 1st 3-5 miles - Start off easy and settle into your rhythm - think about reaching mile 5 either right on pace or ~30 seconds SLOWER than goal pace Miles 5-10 - run your goal pace. You're warmed up now and should be feeling smooth after the comfortable start. Try to pick up the pace slightly (5-10 seconds per mile under goal pace) between 10 and 20...the goal is to whittle away your deficit and slowly build up a little cushion. I aim to hit the half right at pace (so for you 2:00:00 +/- 15 seconds or so) and then try to build up 45-60 seconds of cusion by mile 20/22. Once the cushion is built, you are nearly done, but also starting to feel tired. If you need to, back off to goal pace and convince your mind that it feels easier. Try and hold onto your cushion as long as you can...if you can make it to 24 with 60 seconds still in the bank, take it easy for a mile and save it up for a nice strong finish. SO you don't have to think too much while running, just remember - a few easy miles, it's OK to be slow. Settle into your pace and start building a little bank (not too much at once) between 10 and 20 and then hold on as best you can. This strategy has worked for me because you get an easy start, you build a little bit of banked time while still feeling fresh, you get to back off a little when you start to feel tired if you need to, and then you have to hold on. Lots of runner lack the confidence to run the first half 1-2 minutes slow because then you have to run the 2nd half 2-4 minutes faster to make your goal...that's tough to put yourself in that hole because you could run negative splits and still not make your goal because you were too slow the first half.

JakeKnight

posted: 1/25/2008 at 11:15 AM

Just my two cents: My answer would vary depending on your normal marathon pattern - how much you tend to slow down in the final 10k. In my own experience, the very best sign of increased fitness has been the steady decrease in pace differences between mile 3 and mile 23. In my first few marathons, even though I was trying to follow all the advice and go out easy and run a negative split - I tended to be at least a full minute slower in the final miles. Sometimes two minutes. So now I don't need a cushion and I'd probably follow the advice above about splitting the race into thirds, slower at first, then MP, then racing the end. But when I was trying to get under 4:00 for the first time, I needed a cushion - at least psychologically. So I went out in 8:30 and kept it there as long as I could. It turned out I didn't slow down much and managed, to my surprise, a 3:47. If I'd gone slow at first, I'm not sure I would have done that, or even gone sub-4:00 Then again - it was more than possible that I could have lost it at all at mile 21 and had to do the patented Zombie Death March to the finish line. So I guess there are some obvious risks either way. I know what the experts say, but I think people are all unique. I know when I decide to try to BQ, I plan to go out hard from the start. It seems to work for me. Probably because I'm a wimp in the final miles and don't want to pick it up. All that aside, if I were you I'd probably go out at 9:00 pace and keep it there. 4:00 marathon is what, 9:09? 9:06? Something like that. 9:00 builds you a small cushion. And its a nice round number. I just know if it was me, if I went out in 9:15, I'm pretty sure at mile 20 I wouldn't be able to make up the difference. YMMV, and most of the experts would disagree with me.

E-mail: eric.fuller.mail@gmail.com
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Long Run Nick

posted: 1/25/2008 at 11:59 AM

Quote from Ben_1415 on 1/25/2008 at 10:08 AM:

Couldn't resist.

Hey Ben. You win. Smile

That is my mantra for 99% of my runs. Races are a different animal. To others--thanks some good stuff. I appreciate the thoughts/ideas. I will report back after the race. Nick

Marathon Pacing Opinions (Read 574 times)