2012 Sub-3:00 Marathon Goal Thread (Read 6872 times)

DoppleBock


    http://itiming.com/searchable/results.php?results=ws2012&bib=412

     

    Looks like a decent race - It will be interesting to hear what Don thought of the course and how his race went.  I would point out that he was 8th OA and 7th Man finishing ... Chicked Smile

    http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

    2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

     

    Shark90


      Plug me in for Baltimore Marathon on 10/14/2012

       2:55:00 at Under Armor Baltimore Marathon today!

      "No one ever drowned in sweat." -Author Unknown

        Congrats Shark, had a quick look at your log and must say you have done some amazing progress over the last couple of years at all distances. Pretty impressive!

        J2R


          Yesterday was a confidence-booster for my marathon in two weeks time, with a 10K in 37:05, a PR by 30 seconds. So I think I can safely say I've got the speed, although my weekly mileage is severely lacking.

           

          So, this leads me on to a general question, and I hope this is the right place to ask it. We have here on this thread loads of people who have put in the requisite training to achieve a sub-3 time, and yet a lot of the time, on the day, they don't achieve that target. So what, typically, goes wrong on the day? What would people say are the most common causes for not achieving the sub-3 hour target in a race when the training says you should? Obviously you can have a niggling injury, or have a picked up a cold or something, or it can be adverse conditions (much warmer than usual, say). But there are other things which people must do 'wrong' on the day, like go out too fast, or not hydrate or fuel properly, or whatever. It would be interesting to get a general picture of this - it might help other runners like myself avoid the more common 'mistakes'.

           

          FWIW, in the marathon where I got my PR, I really should have done a lot better than I did (3:08), but I made the mistake of following a 3 hour pacer group instead of sticking to my plan. We ended up going through the water stations too fast for me to be able to take on fluids properly with the result that by mile 20 I was getting pretty dehydrated, and they also went too fast - I believe the pacer person missed the target by a couple of minutes having faded towards the end. No guarantee, of course, that I would have done any better if I HAD stuck to my plan, but I do feel that it was a big mistake to deviate from what I had worked out in advance.


          Alive & Running

            http://itiming.com/searchable/results.php?results=ws2012&bib=412

             

            Looks like a decent race - It will be interesting to hear what Don thought of the course and how his race went.  I would point out that he was 8th OA and 7th Man finishing ... Chicked Smile

             

            Heh, thanks for publicly pointing out the fact that I got chicked!  Although, that never causes me any shame.  The gal that won the women's division started with me and offered a spectacular view for several miles.  Probably the best part of the course that day. Big grin

             

            As for my race, it wasn't that bad.  I did go out at a pace to finish in 2:45.  Felt good for the early miles despite having to deal with a path that was very messy due to rain on Friday night and early Saturday morning.  The weather conditions were perfect once the race began.  Cool, overcast and slight breeze.  I kept my pacing pretty consistent to start.  6:22, 6:24, 6:20, 6:23 & 6:19 for the first five miles.  Hit the half at 1:22 and change, feeling good.  I could tell I was working a lot to find firm spots on the path.  After about mile 15 it became even tougher to find those spots as the half marathoners had gone through there an hour before the marathon started.  

             

            Hit mile 20 at low 2:08 but I could feel fatigue setting in.  My left hip was really starting to ache and I noticed it affecting my stride.  I popped my last gel hoping that would allow me to hold at least a 6:20 pace for the last 10K and give me a shot at a PR since 2:44:59 seemed to be slipping away.  Not to be.  By mile 21 I just couldn't get the legs to move fast enough.  I saw my pace slow to upper 6:50s, and mile pace at mile 24 was 7:02.  Sucked, but I noticed I was passing other marathoners who also were hurting.  A few of them were walking, which motivated me to keep running as best as I could to get to the finish.  Hit mile 25 at 6:38 pace with two more guys in my sights. Ran out of room and motivation as the last 0.2 miles has a silly amount of turns to the finish.  The two I guys I was trying to track down are buddies of mine, which made me feel okay about letting up and enjoying the finish.  Busted out the airplane, which got the crowd going a bit.  

             

            Overall result = 2:50:51.  8th OA and 1st in AG.  Not bad considering the crappy training cycle I had over the last 6 weeks.  Will lick my wounds and start thinking about which race I'll run to take another stab at 2:44.  Early thoughts are Fargo.

             


               But there are other things which people must do 'wrong' on the day, like go out too fast, or not hydrate or fuel properly, or whatever. It would be interesting to get a general picture of this - it might help other runners like myself avoid the more common 'mistakes'.

               

              FWIW, in the marathon where I got my PR, I really should have done a lot better than I did (3:08), but I made the mistake of following a 3 hour pacer group instead of sticking to my plan. We ended up going through the water stations too fast for me to be able to take on fluids properly with the result that by mile 20 I was getting pretty dehydrated, and they also went too fast - I believe the pacer person missed the target by a couple of minutes having faded towards the end. No guarantee, of course, that I would have done any better if I HAD stuck to my plan, but I do feel that it was a big mistake to deviate from what I had worked out in advance.

               

              I can offer lots of excuses. (hope to be back in shape to make another run for sub 3 in the spring)

               

              Going out to fast probably the biggie. Not adjusting to the conditions of the course or day.

               

              Stick to your plan.

               

              Keeps me motivated just reading about everyone else.

              DoppleBock


                I know it sounds obvious - But I screwed myself one marathon the day before by doing something I was not normally doing.  I usually run 4 very easy - very flat miles the day before a marathon.  This time I ran 4 very easy - very hilly miles.  Since I was doing no hills back then the downhills (Even easy) beat up my quads.

                 

                I think you could extrapulate this to any non-normal activity for yourself.  Even something as goofy as some of the Wii video games.  I refuse to play golf the last 4 days before a marathon (I only get to play 3-5 times a year)

                http://a-big-horse.blogspot.com/ 

                2013 Goals ~ Mar < 3:00, 5M < 29, 10k < 35  

                 

                jjameson


                  Yesterday was a confidence-booster for my marathon in two weeks time, with a 10K in 37:05, a PR by 30 seconds. So I think I can safely say I've got the speed, although my weekly mileage is severely lacking.

                   

                  So, this leads me on to a general question, and I hope this is the right place to ask it. We have here on this thread loads of people who have put in the requisite training to achieve a sub-3 time, and yet a lot of the time, on the day, they don't achieve that target. So what, typically, goes wrong on the day? What would people say are the most common causes for not achieving the sub-3 hour target in a race when the training says you should? Obviously you can have a niggling injury, or have a picked up a cold or something, or it can be adverse conditions (much warmer than usual, say). But there are other things which people must do 'wrong' on the day, like go out too fast, or not hydrate or fuel properly, or whatever. It would be interesting to get a general picture of this - it might help other runners like myself avoid the more common 'mistakes'.

                   

                  FWIW, in the marathon where I got my PR, I really should have done a lot better than I did (3:08), but I made the mistake of following a 3 hour pacer group instead of sticking to my plan. We ended up going through the water stations too fast for me to be able to take on fluids properly with the result that by mile 20 I was getting pretty dehydrated, and they also went too fast - I believe the pacer person missed the target by a couple of minutes having faded towards the end. No guarantee, of course, that I would have done any better if I HAD stuck to my plan, but I do feel that it was a big mistake to deviate from what I had worked out in advance.

                   

                  You got it.  Discipline to stick to your plan and pacing.

                   

                   

                  J2R


                    You got it.  Discipline to stick to your plan and pacing.

                     

                    I will, this time. The only problem is that I haven't quite worked out what my plan and pacing will be yet Smile. I'm thinking at the moment that I'll try to stick to an average pace of around 6:47-6:48, which I should attain after 4-5 miles (I often start with a slightly slower mile, even if I've warmed up thoroughly beforehand). On the basis of my 10K time last Sunday, I should be looking at a time of around 2:51-2:52, but I know this is complete fantasy, as I haven't done the requisite mileage, so I'm playing it a lot safer. Don't expect to get a sub-3, but I'll give it a damned good try on the day!


                    I'm back!

                       (I often start with a slightly slower mile, even if I've warmed up thoroughly beforehand). ... Don't expect to get a sub-3, but I'll give it a damned good try on the day!

                       

                      I'm gonna call that a mistake, if you mean actual running to warm up before a marathon. Save the warmup for the first couple of miles; you need every ounce of muscle and liver glycogen for the marathon. The farthest I will run is to test my shoe-tying job.

                       

                      I'm curious, when you ran 3:08 but started following the 3:00 pace group, what was your original goal / plan? If you didn't think you were in sub-3 shape, then yeah, that would be a big oops.

                       

                      If sub-3 is your goal, rather than running your fastest marathon, I wouldn't even push it to 6:47-6:48. I'd keep it bang on 6:52, until at least halfway, maybe bust it open at 20 if you're feeling great.

                       

                      Finally, not expecting to get a sub-3 may also be a mistake. When you take out conditions, pacing, and training as factors, what's left is the mental game. Confidence that you can do it is a huge benefit. Your 10K tune-up certainly has you in there. What has your weekly mileage been like? Long runs?

                      J2R


                        1. I'm gonna call that a mistake, if you mean actual running to warm up before a marathon. Save the warmup for the first couple of miles; you need every ounce of muscle and liver glycogen for the marathon. The farthest I will run is to test my shoe-tying job.

                         

                        2. I'm curious, when you ran 3:08 but started following the 3:00 pace group, what was your original goal / plan? If you didn't think you were in sub-3 shape, then yeah, that would be a big oops.

                         

                        3. If sub-3 is your goal, rather than running your fastest marathon, I wouldn't even push it to 6:47-6:48. I'd keep it bang on 6:52, until at least halfway, maybe bust it open at 20 if you're feeling great.

                         

                        4. Finally, not expecting to get a sub-3 may also be a mistake. When you take out conditions, pacing, and training as factors, what's left is the mental game. Confidence that you can do it is a huge benefit. Your 10K tune-up certainly has you in there. What has your weekly mileage been like? Long runs?

                         

                         

                        1. Well, I usually run around for 3-4 minutes, slowly, just to get the blood flowing. Maybe I'll skip it this time.

                         

                        2. When I did 3:08, I probably wasn't in sub-3 shape but I was probably capable of a time inside 3:05. I had planned to go out at 6:52 and see if I could do it. But the pacer group was probably running at something more like 6:45 pace. It was a warm day and lack of fluids caught up with me big time later on.

                         

                        3. It may sound a ridiculous question, but is 6:52 pace always going to be easier than 6:47 pace? I ask, because in the last few weeks I've done a LOT more miles at 6:40-6:45 pace than I have at 6:50-6:55 pace and I'm wondering whether that counts for something in terms of running economy at that pace. It probably doesn't apply in this speed range, but it's my experience that slower isn't always easier. I reckon, for example, that I'd probably find it easiest overall to run a marathon in a time of around 3:30 - easier than running it in 4:00 or 4:30. I may be wrong, as I've never put it to the test. But there's a pace I settle into naturally on long runs which I think of as my 'run all day' pace (I don't delude myself that I actually could run all day at that pace). If I drop below that pace I feel I'm running less efficiently.

                         

                        4. My weekly mileage has not averaged more than 30 for the last 4-5 months, hence my doubts. I've put in a decent number of long runs, the longest being 23 miles about 5 weeks ago, most being in the 16-19 range. I've done a few weeks of 40+ miles, and 3-4 weeks with just over 50. For my next marathon (London in April), I'll be adding another 20-25 miles a week. But I know I'm woefully short on the miles of this one, and I was hoping to compensate for that with overall fitness - I've been doing a bunch of long-ish tempo-ish runs, of 10-13 miles at pace midway between half marathon and marathon which have helped. If I'd done the mileage I'd be going in to it brimming with confidence, but that is, alas, not the case.


                        I'm back!

                          3. It may sound a ridiculous question, but is 6:52 pace always going to be easier than 6:47 pace? I ask, because in the last few weeks I've done a LOT more miles at 6:40-6:45 pace than I have at 6:50-6:55 pace and I'm wondering whether that counts for something in terms of running economy at that pace. It probably doesn't apply in this speed range, but it's my experience that slower isn't always easier. I reckon, for example, that I'd probably find it easiest overall to run a marathon in a time of around 3:30 - easier than running it in 4:00 or 4:30. I may be wrong, as I've never put it to the test. But there's a pace I settle into naturally on long runs which I think of as my 'run all day' pace (I don't delude myself that I actually could run all day at that pace). If I drop below that pace I feel I'm running less efficiently. 

                           

                          That's an interesting question. I'm with you that I'd find running a 3:30 marathon easier than 4:00 or 4:30. But I would expect that if you are accustomed to 6:40-6:45, then running the first half at 6:52 will feel a bit relaxed. You should be able to tell by feel on race day, though. If it feels forced, like you are wasting energy, then get out of that groove into a better one.

                           

                           4. My weekly mileage has not averaged more than 30 for the last 4-5 months, hence my doubts. I've put in a decent number of long runs, the longest being 23 miles about 5 weeks ago, most being in the 16-19 range. I've done a few weeks of 40+ miles, and 3-4 weeks with just over 50. For my next marathon (London in April), I'll be adding another 20-25 miles a week. But I know I'm woefully short on the miles of this one, and I was hoping to compensate for that with overall fitness - I've been doing a bunch of long-ish tempo-ish runs, of 10-13 miles at pace midway between half marathon and marathon which have helped. If I'd done the mileage I'd be going in to it brimming with confidence, but that is, alas, not the case.

                           

                          You can do it! Given the low mileage, everything else sounds good. (Though next time, maybe separate the MP runs and the tempo runs for more specific training benefit.)

                           

                          Getting in the long runs is key. And 13 miles at MP is not an easy workout, let alone faster than MP. My bet is you're good to go.


                          ultramarathon/triathlete

                            "Aiming for a sub three mark is certainly within the range of any fast runner below 35 who's done a few marathons already..."

                            http://www.allaboutrunning.net/sri-chinmoy-racesblog/running-sub-3-hour-marathon

                             

                             

                            Buuuut, I turned 36 today!    :-(

                            HTFU?  Why not!

                            Coach: Empire Tri Club 

                            Speed Coach: Brooklyn Tri Club


                            I'm back!

                              Well that's it, you missed your chance, mister.

                                "Aiming for a sub three mark is certainly within the range of any fast runner below 35 who's done a few marathons already..."

                                http://www.allaboutrunning.net/sri-chinmoy-racesblog/running-sub-3-hour-marathon

                                 

                                Crap! I better make this an official goal then while I still have time. Smile

                                 

                                Put me down for sub-3 at Rocket City in Huntsville, AL on December 8th.

                                 

                                --

                                Nashville, TN