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What would you do? Request for thoughts/advice/opinions. (Read 734 times)


Hey, nice marmot!

    So, I find myself with a bit of an ethical dilemma. You guys are a pretty diverse and intelligent group, so I would like to appeal to the wisdom of the crowd.

     

    The situation is this, from the marvels of the internet (and various laws) I have learned through an online sex offender registry that a convicted sex offender is living in my apartment complex just two buildings away from me. (The complex itself is comprised of many separate buildings with 14 apartments per building) Maybe I’m just being naïve, but this really shocked me. The only real crime I’ve seen since living here is petty vandalism when school is out for the summer. I never would have guessed I was living a literal stone’s throw from a convicted sex offender. So my question to you is this: What, if any, moral obligation do I have now that I have this information? The way I see it, it breaks down into basically three options:

     

    a) I have no moral obligation at all. This man is not a fugitive. He has been convicted, served his time, and should be left alone.

     

    b) Courts and psychologists generally treat sex offenders as a special breed of criminal (hence the existence of the online registry I found). I owe it to my neighbors to inform of this potential threat. This man is a possible threat to all women and children living in the vicinity. If they know he’s out there, it may encourage them to be extra aware/vigilant in their day-to-day lives.

     

    c) My obligation is to inform my landlord. It is possible this man is illegally subletting the apartment. If I choose option b, the landlord may experience harsh financial repercussions (ie, many renters leaving) for something that wasn’t their fault. As the property owner, the landlord should have the right to determine the course of action and what, if anything, should be told to the tenets.

     

    Thoughts/Opinions? Am I missing something? These were the three most viable options I could come up with that wouldn’t result in me going to jail if I actually did them.  Has anyone ever experienced anything like this?  What did you do?

    Ben

    "The world is my country, science is my religion."-- Christiaan Huygens



    tipsy chicks

      That's a really good question.  I've seen the list for our area and, fortunately, there are no convicted offenders right in our 'hood.

       

      My question is: what level offender are they?  For instance, in some states an 18 year old boy can be convicted of a sex crime for having sex with his 16-17 year old girlfriend (I met my hubby a few months shy of my 18th birthday and he was already 18...my parents could have had him arrested and convicted).  It bothers me that in a situation of consent between an adult and a near adult the guy is often viewed in the same light as a violent sex offender convicted of rape.

       

      Assuming this guy is a truly creepy sex offender...man, that's a tough call.  The online list isn't really hidden, so I feel sort of like it's up to a renter to find out what they can about their neighborhood BEFORE leasing a rental unit.  Something tells me the landlord is aware, too, if he/she actually did a background check on the renter prior to leasing the unit.  If not, well then they're not really doing their job.

       

      I'd probably go with B, in reality.  Word gets around in apartment settings.  You'd probably only need to give a couple of people a heads-up before the entire complex knows the situation.

      Kirsten

      '07: 1324.5 ••• '08: 1561 ••• '09: 1810.9 run ~ 208.7 bike ••• '10: 1,000.3 run ~ 3513.5 bike ••• '11: 710.3 run ~ 4157.9 bike

      '12 Goals:

      • more off-road

      • gain proficiency @ CX mounts & dismounts (ie stop leap-frogging w/people who ride slower after every obstacle -- finish further up the field)

      punch Type 1 in the junk, again

        Seems to me like it boils down to do you leave the person alone, or not.  Telling others about what you know would seem to fall into "not leaving alone" category.  What you do hinges on what you would consider "justice".  The "not leaving alone" would seem to indicate that he deserves to suffer more for his crimes, or is currently a potential threat, in your opinion.  To decide he deserves the "not leaving alone" option implies that the justice system has failed in this situation, again in your opinion.  Because you don't know the details of his situation making those kind of calls is a pretty tall order.  Did he kidnap and assault a 8 year old girl, or did he sleep with a 16 year old when he was 19.... Spreading the info is going to destroy the guys life where he lives, and there is a chance he might not deserve it.  I'm not saying he doesn't, but I don't know, and I suspect you probably don't either.

         

        On the other hand, it is easy for me to be ideological because my family doesn't live there.

        Whatever my lot, thou hast taught me to say, It is well, it is well with my soul.
        Shoe


          So, I find myself with a bit of an ethical dilemma. You guys are a pretty diverse and intelligent group, so I would like to appeal to the wisdom of the crowd.

           

          The situation is this, from the marvels of the internet (and various laws) I have learned through an online sex offender registry that a convicted sex offender is living in my apartment complex just two buildings away from me. (The complex itself is comprised of many separate buildings with 14 apartments per building) Maybe I’m just being naïve, but this really shocked me. The only real crime I’ve seen since living here is petty vandalism when school is out for the summer. I never would have guessed I was living a literal stone’s throw from a convicted sex offender. So my question to you is this: What, if any, moral obligation do I have now that I have this information? The way I see it, it breaks down into basically three options:

           

          a) I have no moral obligation at all. This man is not a fugitive. He has been convicted, served his time, and should be left alone.

           

          b) Courts and psychologists generally treat sex offenders as a special breed of criminal (hence the existence of the online registry I found). I owe it to my neighbors to inform of this potential threat. This man is a possible threat to all women and children living in the vicinity. If they know he’s out there, it may encourage them to be extra aware/vigilant in their day-to-day lives.

           

          c) My obligation is to inform my landlord. It is possible this man is illegally subletting the apartment. If I choose option b, the landlord may experience harsh financial repercussions (ie, many renters leaving) for something that wasn’t their fault. As the property owner, the landlord should have the right to determine the course of action and what, if anything, should be told to the tenets.

           

          Thoughts/Opinions? Am I missing something? These were the three most viable options I could come up with that wouldn’t result in me going to jail if I actually did them.  Has anyone ever experienced anything like this?  What did you do?

           

          At first I wondered if your apartment did criminal background checks.

           

          Did your registry report the crime?  My state's sex offender registry has people convicted of statuatory rape when they were themselves quite young.  These people are not a threat to anybody, and it would seem tragic for them to be possibly attacked or forced from their home from someone who doesn't stop to ask questions.   Someone on the sex offender registry does not mean a violent offender or someone with high likelihood of recidivism.  Just food for thought, and I am not sure of the registration laws in your state and how vigorously certain crimes are prosecuted.

           

          If it were a crime against children, I would want to know if a neighbor found out.


          Best Present Ever

            Why would you have an obligation to inform the landlord about his sex offender registration?  The landlord has access to this information.

             

            I am a researcher who specializes in violence prevention and the effects of violence on women and children.  I am also a forensic nurse examiner and perform or oversee all the sexual assault exams done for men, women and children in my hospital.  To top that off, I'm married to a prosecutor.  I spend my life thinking about sexual assault in a way that very few people do.  With that background, I think that sex offender registries are misguided and potentially harmful.  Most sex offenders are probably not in them and most  people in the registries are probably not a threat to their neighbors.  Public safety is not enhanced by the registries. It may even be harmed. 

              If I were in your shoes, I would talk to the landlord.

              Amy


              Giddyup.

                I'm sure I will regret saying this.  I have no idea what/why/how dude got in trouble.  We definitely hear stories about sex offenders who repeat and do vile things.  There's also another category of sex offender.  Like the 18 year kid who didn't know any better and got busted in the backseat with his 17 year old girlfriend.

                 

                What are we dealing with here?  Dunno.  And is my 18 year old example extreme and intentionally dramatic?  Almost certainly.  Though this class exists.

                 

                Point is, no idea what you got on your hands there.  Honestly that might make it more alarming to me, not less.  Dunno.  But hard for say.

                 

                Anyway, if it is possible to get more details from public records, I would consider doing that before hitting the big red button.

                 

                Incidentally, is the 'online sex offender registry' correct?  Again, I have no idea if it is or not.  But every time I get my credit report, it is loaded with bullshit that has nothing to do with me.  I'm a little jaded regarding the accuracy of Big Gigantic Databases like that.

                Ultima tastes like failure.


                my newest pet

                  I had one of those notices come in the mail - can't remember if there was a photo attached, I somehow have a picture of this guy in my head.  Level X (whatever it was) sex offender moving into this general area (not that close to me actually) of your neighbourhood.

                   

                  On the one hand, as a bleeding heart liberal, I felt his privacy rights had been violated.  He did his time, ok?  It said at least twice in the flyer that he wasn't wanted for anything.

                   

                  On the other hand, aren't sex predators one of the hardest to reform, with really high relapse rates after even lengthy sentences?  Maybe these public notices are actually quite effective preventing such additional crimes (somehow I doubt it).

                   

                  And then it did turn out to be sex not with a small child, but someone closer to his age.  Although the situation sounded nasty and violent - gang rape.

                   

                  It sounds like you live in a large block of apartments.  What are the chances there already is an uncaught sex predator living there?

                   

                  I'd say, tell a few neighbours, it will be like a grass fire.

                  "During a marathon, I run about two-thirds of the time. That's plenty." - Margaret Davis, 85 Ed Whitlock regarding his 2:54:48 marathon at age 73, "That was a good day. It was never a struggle."

                    Why would you have an obligation to inform the landlord about his sex offender registration?  The landlord has access to this information.

                     

                    I am a researcher who specializes in violence prevention and the effects of violence on women and children.  I am also a forensic nurse examiner and perform or oversee all the sexual assault exams done for men, women and children in my hospital.  To top that off, I'm married to a prosecutor.  I spend my life thinking about sexual assault in a way that very few people do.  With that background, I think that sex offender registries are misguided and potentially harmful.  Most sex offenders are probably not in them and most  people in the registries are probably not a threat to their neighbors.  Public safety is not enhanced by the registries. It may even be harmed. 

                     

                    Thread over

                     

                    ....

                     

                    Me (half) joking around aside:  I have never really thought about this type of thing before but am always looking to become better educated about my world.  Would you mind elaborating a bit, it is always nice to hear someone that knows about something talk about something. 

                    Whatever my lot, thou hast taught me to say, It is well, it is well with my soul.


                    Hey, nice marmot!

                      Interesting food for thought.  Thanks all.

                       

                      As to his crime, he was convicted of Sexual Offense in the Third Degree.  This is defined as:

                       

                      "§3–307. Sexual Offense in the Third Degree

                      (a) A person may not:

                      (1) (i) engage in sexual contact with another without the consent of the other; and

                      (ii) 1. employ or display a dangerous weapon, or a physical object that the victim reasonably believes is a dangerous weapon;

                      2. suffocate, strangle, disfigure, or inflict serious physical injury on the victim or another in the course of committing the crime;

                      3. threaten, or place the victim in fear, that the victim, or an individual known to the victim, imminently will be subject to death, suffocation, strangulation, disfigurement, serious physical injury, or kidnapping; or

                      4. commit the crime while aided and abetted by another;

                       

                      (2) engage in sexual contact with another if the victim is a mentally defective individual, a mentally incapacitated individual, or a physically helpless individual, and the person performing the act knows or reasonably should know the victim is a mentally defective individual, a mentally incapacitated individual, or a physically helpless individual;

                       

                      (3) engage in sexual contact with another if the victim is under the age of 14 years, and the person performing the sexual contact is at least 4 years older than the victim;

                       

                      (4) engage in a sexual act with another if the victim is 14 or 15 years old, and the person performing the sexual act is at least 21 years old; or

                       

                      (5) engage in vaginal intercourse with another if the victim is 14 or 15 years old, and the person performing the act is at least 21 years old.

                       

                      (b) A person who violates this section is guilty of the felony of sexual offense in the third degree and on conviction is subject to imprisonment not exceeding 10 years."

                       

                      So yeah, that includes a pretty wide range of behavior.  I don't think a 21 year old having sex with a 15 year old (although very creepy) is in the same league as someone who engages in sexual contact without consent and suffocates,strangles, or disfigures the victim during the act.

                      Ben

                      "The world is my country, science is my religion."-- Christiaan Huygens



                      Best Present Ever

                        Incidentally, is the 'online sex offender registry' correct?  Again, I have no idea if it is or not.  But every time I get my credit report, it is loaded with bullshit that has nothing to do with me.  I'm a little jaded regarding the accuracy of Big Gigantic Databases like that.

                         I've not heard of men with no convictions at all being on them, except for same-name issues.  Which you could easily have, come to think  of it.   Depending on the state, though, there are names of men who haven't done things that we would think of as real threats to public safety.  And of course, most children are abused by someone they know -- some percentage are the man-who-lives-around-the-corner, but mostly relatives, mom's boyfriend, etc.  And most offenders aren't reported and most people reported aren't convicted.  I always say  using sex offender registries to guide behavior around strangers would be like health care providers relying on a registry of people with HIV to decide how careful to be around body fluids.  It just doesn't make sense. 


                        Giddyup.

                          Oh yeah, the same name issue is what gets me.  I have the "John Smith" equivalent of spanish names.  But it's everything else in that ^^^ post that 'splains my thoughts better than I could.

                          Ultima tastes like failure.


                          tipsy chicks

                            Something akin to the 18 year old with the late-teens, minor girlfriend issue is that of drunken folks caught publicly urinating.  Every college town probably has at least one of these episodes on a typical weekend night.  That's deemed a sex offense, as well...falls under public nudity.  I know I don't live in fear of inebriated taking a tinkle behind bushes, BTDT, just never got caught. Tongue  Shit, we've all done this as runners, too.  Technically we're all a bunch of sex offenders.

                            Kirsten

                            '07: 1324.5 ••• '08: 1561 ••• '09: 1810.9 run ~ 208.7 bike ••• '10: 1,000.3 run ~ 3513.5 bike ••• '11: 710.3 run ~ 4157.9 bike

                            '12 Goals:

                            • more off-road

                            • gain proficiency @ CX mounts & dismounts (ie stop leap-frogging w/people who ride slower after every obstacle -- finish further up the field)

                            punch Type 1 in the junk, again


                            Best Present Ever

                              Something akin to the 18 year old with the late-teens, minor girlfriend issue is that of drunken folks caught publicly urinating.  Every college town probably has at least one of these episodes on a typical weekend night.  That's deemed a sex offense, as well...falls under public nudity.  I know I don't live in fear of inebriated taking a tinkle behind bushes, BTDT, just never got caught. Tongue  Shit, we've all done this as runners, too.  Technically we're all a bunch of sex offenders.

                               Actually, it depends on the state whether or not public urination would get you registered.  Not in most places, as far as I know.  In Virginia, sodomy (anything but penile-vaginal intercourse) with anyone including one's lawfully wedded spouse and fornication, or having plain-vanilla heterosexual consensual sex with someone a person is not married to, are both sex offenses.  I love to tell groups of undergraduates that I am a sexual felon.  Evil 


                              tipsy chicks

                                 Actually, it depends on the state whether or not public urination would get you registered.  Not in most places, as far as I know.  In Virginia, sodomy (anything but penile-vaginal intercourse) with anyone including one's lawfully wedded spouse and fornication, or having plain-vanilla heterosexual consensual sex with someone a person is not married to, are both sex offenses.  I love to tell groups of undergraduates that I am a sexual felon.  Evil 

                                 

                                Oh, the sodomy thing...I believe that's on the books in WI (not sure about MI, but we seem to have even more repressive laws here than across the lake).  I remember we used to joke about that one.  I'm not even sure if that law is ever enforced, though.

                                Kirsten

                                '07: 1324.5 ••• '08: 1561 ••• '09: 1810.9 run ~ 208.7 bike ••• '10: 1,000.3 run ~ 3513.5 bike ••• '11: 710.3 run ~ 4157.9 bike

                                '12 Goals:

                                • more off-road

                                • gain proficiency @ CX mounts & dismounts (ie stop leap-frogging w/people who ride slower after every obstacle -- finish further up the field)

                                punch Type 1 in the junk, again

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