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Does volume matter - a retrospective study (Read 354 times)


Feeling the growl again

    wouldn't this make more sense if the mileage totals were for the 365 days (or whatever period) prior to the race, instead of the calendar year?

     

    also, what about the cumulative/carry-over effects? if someone ran 3000 miles a year, and took it down a notch and ran a consistent 1500 miles the next, he'd still be in better shape than if he had ran 2000 that year with a 1500 year before?

     

    As I indicated, I had the data on hand for each calendar year, and going back to add rolling totals before each race...while preferred...would be quite a bit of additional work.

     

    Regarding carryover effects, I did not, unfortunately, experience as much of that as even I expected.  They are going quickly by a year.

    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

     


    Old , Ugly and slow

      I best times were the year I ran just under 2000 miles.

      first race sept 1977 last race sept 2007

       

      2014goals   1300  miles  , 190 pounds , deadlift 400 touch my toes


      Finally PRed!!!

        So what you are say is; the more you run the better running shape you will be in and the better running shape you are in the faster you can run?

         

        This is true if nothing else changes. In 2011 and 2012, I ran more than I did in 2009 and 2010, but my times were much slower, because I also put on weight (apparently middle-age metabolism changes). In 2013 I increased miles more, and also began to be careful what I eat, and times have begun to get faster again. But if I just plotted times as a function of mileage it would not be so neat. Of course, I'm a fairly slow runner and my data would probably not be as interesting to many of you faster peeps.

        PRs: 5K: 22:09, 10K:44:55, 15K: 1:10:35, HM: 1:42:49, M: 3:32:09

        Yooper3.1


          Does volume matter?  Of course it does; that's why our amps go to 11.

          ShuffleFaster


            It would be interesting to label the datapoints by age (or use a three dimensional plot) to see if any trends exist with age as well.


            Feeling the growl again

              It would be interesting to label the datapoints by age (or use a three dimensional plot) to see if any trends exists with age as well.

               

              You would see no pattern with age in these data, I can tell you that.

              "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

               

              runmomto3boys


                Very cool!

                 

                I am banking on this being true.  Fingers crossed.


                Feeling the growl again

                  Very cool!

                   

                  I am banking on this being true.  Fingers crossed.

                   

                  Yeah I wish I could keep up with you anymore.  Someone's got to lay down the times, might as well be you!

                  "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                   

                  runmomto3boys


                     

                    Yeah I wish I could keep up with you anymore.  Someone's got to lay down the times, might as well be you!

                     

                    Your talent is INSANE, though.  I wish you were able to run the big miles again so I could see you running some stupid fast races.  Is the hip still achy, or did it shut up?


                    Feeling the growl again

                       

                      Your talent is INSANE, though.  I wish you were able to run the big miles again so I could see you running some stupid fast races.  Is the hip still achy, or did it shut up?

                       

                      Interesting that you bring up the topic of talent.

                       

                      When I first started I had no obvious talent...I was not one of those kids that stepped on the track and within months or a year was leading his peers.  Quite the opposite; I was at the back for 4 years 7th-10th grades before out-training my peers and taking most improved, then most valuable.  College was somewhat flat as we didn't run high volume, then post-college I ran much higher volume than post of my peers to get in front of them in races.  So I considered myself not very talented but a hard worker.

                       

                      Then after awhile I felt this was somewhat arrogant and that I was talented but it just took more work than others to bring it out (the whole "the more I trained the more talented I became" view).

                       

                      Then, in a relatively short period of time, I watched it all erode away.  Running 50mpw consistently, with workouts, and all I was doing was slowing down the rate at which I got slower.

                       

                      The way I look at it now, there is shallow talent and deep talent.  People with shallow talent are known to be talented early, with little training.  Often running high mileage is not required or does not gain them a whole lot.  Whatever physiologically constitutes "talent", they already have it there and it takes little to bring it out.  People with deep talent still have the genetic potential, but they have to actually put in a large volume or work to physiologically develop that talent.

                       

                      As for the hip, it randomly rears its ugly head.  After being OK for weeks it shut me down a few days ago.  First massage attempt did nothing, by this morning the muscles were irritated and randomly twitching and just annoying.  After another deeper, more painful massage and some quality time on a tennis ball I will try running again tomorrow.  Can't put a good week together.  After the new year I'm going to finally get a pro to take a crack at it.  There is something in there someone needs to break up.

                      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                       

                      runmomto3boys


                        That is a very interesting take on things, spaniel.  I haven't been at this running thing very long, so I find this sort of stuff pretty fascinating.

                         

                        As far as the hip is concerned: damn it.  I hate to see anyone benched or not running as much as they want to run due to injury.  Injury = suck.  Have you tried dry needling?  I had success with that when I had some pretty resistant trigger points in my calves and hip that wouldn't STFU (pulling on my Achilles).


                        Feeling the growl again

                           Have you tried dry needling? 

                           

                          No.  I saw a good chiro who helped somewhat, then realized my wife's amateur massages worked wonders.  But they are a band-aid not a fix and at this point I want a fix, so I'm going to seek a pro.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

                            My buddy had on and off hip pain for years and got some relief from a manual therapist (who are awesome BTW if you find a good one). He finally got it checked by an ortho As it was a chronic but not disabling discomfort. He got an MRI.  He has had a torn labrum all along. The bad news is that it is inoperable because of his anatomy. He is a sad and frustrated runner.

                            Those who try, fail! Those who do what it takes to succeed, succeed!!

                            runmomto3boys


                               

                              No.  I saw a good chiro who helped somewhat, then realized my wife's amateur massages worked wonders.  But they are a band-aid not a fix and at this point I want a fix, so I'm going to seek a pro.

                               

                              Good call.

                               

                              As far as the original topic goes, though, thanks for compiling all this info.  It's fascinating.

                              Scooterscott


                                 

                                Interesting that you bring up the topic of talent....

                                 

                                ...The way I look at it now, there is shallow talent and deep talent.  People with shallow talent are known to be talented early, with little training.  Often running high mileage is not required or does not gain them a whole lot.  Whatever physiologically constitutes "talent", they already have it there and it takes little to bring it out.  People with deep talent still have the genetic potential, but they have to actually put in a large volume or work to physiologically develop that talent.

                                 

                                Interesting concept.  But do you think this concept taken to the extreme also explains why we have sprinters and marathoners?  Even within the distance running world there are folks that seem to be better at shorter races as opposed to longer races.  The majority of folks can train up and have relative success but few can excel at a variety of distances like Haile G.

                                 

                                It seems that it is logical that more mileage will produce an improvement but at some point there will be a breaking point.  Once past that point your body will not be able to recover and properly adapt to the training load.  I agree that most people have not hit that point and could always do more volume but I also am starting to think that the breaking point for everyone would be very individual.

                                 

                                I like the way you tried to account for variability by adjusting all races to a calculated 10K for better comparison but don't you think that it would be a better comparison by restricting to only one distance (ideally only one course for that distance).  The graph is great but, if for example, one year you did a slightly higher number of one type of race that really suits you or the volume of training, it could skew the data.

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