Interval recovery? (Read 852 times)

I have just started training for the St. Jude 1/2 in Memphis on Dec. 4.  I am following a modified version of Hal Higdon's intermediate training program.  Today I did my first intervals, 5 x 400 M.  I am supposed to do them at a 5K pace, which for me I think would be about 8:00 to 8:30.  My garmin wasn't charged up, so I timed them at about 1:50 per 400M which is about a 7:20 pace.  For each rest, I walked a full 400M.  The workout didn't seem as hard as my normal runs, so I thought my recovery might have been too long.

 

I searched the forums and found a post:

 

From Hal Higdon's book, "Marathon":
"In interval training, you carefully control the period of rest time, or interval, between the fast repetitions [2 x 400, etc.] ... Key to this kind of workout is that your heart rate not be allowed to drop too low before you surge into action again. Please note that the 'interval' is the period between reps, not the repetition itself. ... interval training is probably the most efficient workout for developing speed."

 

On his website it says:

 

"An interval workout usually consists of fast repeats separated by walking or jogging. The program begins with 5 x 400 meters in the first week and adds one more 400 every other week to reach 10 x 400 meters the week before your half marathon. Walk or jog between each repeat... Run the 400s at about your pace for 5-K, or 10-K."

 

So I guess I should go harder by either only walking maybe 200 M or jogging the rest time instead of walking?  What % heart rate should I be aiming for on both the reps and the rests?  Any thoughts?

You don't need to worry about heart rate if you don't want.  When doing work at 5k pace, generally you want the recovery interval to be about 50-75% of the time it took to do the work interval.  So if the 400 took you 1:50, you'd want the recovery jog to take about 65-85 seconds.  I usually jog a slow 200 if I were doing a workout like that.

To follow up on Purdey's question, I read somewhere that running fast intervals can help one develop a more efficient stride and, in that respect, it helps longer distances as well because through the training the more efficient stride will eventually be incorporated into the 5K or longer distances.

 

I am really just interested in 5Ks (at this point).  I am trying to break 20 min. I have primarily focused on upping my mileage for a faster 5K.  But every couple of weeks I throw in a speed workout which is running 400M repeats at what is for me a very fast pace (around 79-85 seconds).  In my typical weekly running I would never approach this pace.  I am trying to work up to 8 to 10 repeats during the speed session (and hopefully increase the speed).

 

Do you think this is worthwhile?  Also, is my purpose different from the OPs since I am running them at much faster than 5K pace and thus I should have a different recovery time between intervals?

are 400s really that important for a 1/2M anyway?  Or even for a 5k?

400s are over prescribed for most of us in plans and I personally don't care for them in high volume for half marathon training unless you are a very high mileage runner. Focus more on 10K and 1/2 marathon paced reps/miles in your quality work (like 5-6 X 1K 10K pace or 4 X 1 mile half pace) with 90-120 sec recoveries followed by 4 X 200M fast all in same work out. Throw in some faster paced miles (marathon pace/half marathon pace) in your long run preferrably on hilly terrain. Throw in more striders another day or two per week and there are your two quality work outs with speed for half training for an intermediate runner. Those 4 X 200s, 8 X 100s, 3 X 300s are all you need to bring life/speed to your legs. Hammering 400s would not me on my plan for an intermediate lower mileage runner but the way you are doing them is not that intense because of the walking such a long time.

Without bickering about the contents of Hal Higdon's plans and how I'd design them differently ...

 

I followed his Intermediate plan for my first HM (last fall).  I felt the plan was solid, and it delivered me to the starting line reasonably well-trained and without injury.  Personally, though, I too found the 400 interval workouts to be less challenging than I'd expected, but I think I was expecting more pain based on old track memories.  FWIW, I did mine in 1:45-1:50 with jogging recoveries of 1:30 (which I pared down to 1:15 and then 1:00 as the plan progressed).

 

If I can ask you a couple questions:

1. You said you were following a modified plan -- what mods did you make and why?
2. If I understood your post, your 5k race-pace is 8:00-8:30 ... but you ran these 400m repeats at 7:20 pace.  If that's right, why?

If I understood your post, your 5k race-pace is 8:00-8:30 ... but you ran these 400m repeats at 7:20 pace.  If that's right, why?

That is a problem I see all the time. Either runners don't know their true, 10K, 5K, 1 mile pace or how it feels so they just hammer the prescribed intervals too fast.  Longer and a bit slower stamina/strength reps/miles are of more value for most of us especially the intermediate runner still trying to find himself and find his paces.

That is a problem I see all the time. Either runners don't know their true, 10K, 5K, 1 mile pace or how it feels so they just hammer the prescribed intervals too fast.  Longer and a bit slower stamina/strength reps/miles are of more value for most of us especially the intermediate runner still trying to find himself and find his paces.

 

I decided on my 5K pace by looking back at my recent runs of about 4 miles, not including warm-up and cool-down.  It was around 8:45, so I felt I could probably manage 8:00 to 8:30 on a 5K.

 

 

 

2) The only reason I ran them at about 7:20 was because I overshot my pace on the first interval.  It felt good, so I repeated it on the next intervals.  The only reason I walked a full 400 for rest was I had never done these before or had anyone explain them to me.  The advice here is awesome, I really appreciate everyone's help.

 When you get the recovery right you'll find that effort harder and whatever you can average (don't let youself go fast on the first one and run slowest for the last ones) should be in the ballpark of current 5K.