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| Yasso's (Read 594 times) |
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posted: 1/9/2008 at 10:59 PM |
Ok so I was thinking after reading the articl by Amby Burfoot about the Yasso 800's.
If the 800's work for training for a full marathon would 400's work the same way for a half. I would think so but since I have not done any 800's it would work IMHO.
Let me know your thoughts on this.
Jeremy |
2008 Goals...
-Start and Finish Gate River Run Completed 08MAR08
sub 8:00 completed 05APR 7:50 minute mile
Start and Finish 3 1/2 marathons in three months 04OCT08, 27NOV08, 21DEC08
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posted: 1/9/2008 at 11:37 PM |
| The elegance of the concept has me completely stunned. |
| What is to give light must endure burning.
~ Viktor Frankl |
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posted: 1/9/2008 at 11:38 PM |
| Neat -- what are the equivalent shorter ones for 10K races and for 5K races? |
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posted: 1/9/2008 at 11:39 PM |
| Quote from AmoresPerros on 1/9/2008 at 11:38 PM: Neat -- what are the equivalent shorter ones for 10K races and for 5K races?
Run to the fridge and back for 5k training. But give it 101% effort. |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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posted: 1/9/2008 at 11:52 PM
modified: 1/9/2008 at 11:55 PM |
A semi-serious answer:
No. I don't think it works that way. I love 400s - for 5k training.
Frankly I think 800s are of limited value for marathons or half-marathons; and I wouldn't go any shorter for interval training for a half marathon (or marathon).
I'd do mile intervals if I were you and skip the shorter stuff, assuming you're concentrating solely on the half marathon. If you're just doing some speed work for the helluva it, then mix it up.
But I think I can safely say that 400s ain't the best way to train for a half marathon. I'd skip the intervals altogether and do quick tempo runs at a little faster than race pace, maybe some longer progression runs where you run that last few miles at race pace, some medium distance race pace runs, and build up a lot of mileage.
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Modified again: I looked at your log and it confirmed the above. Forget the fancy stuff. Just run. Build your mileage up (a lot) and work on consistency. Run 5 days a week, easy runs mostly. Build a base. You can do speed work later. Right now you need AT LEAST a consistent 20 miles a week on the road. 30 would be better. 40 better still.
If you do 400s or any fast speed work on your current mileage, you're almost begging for an injury. |
E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 12:00 AM |
| Naw dude. You need to do 6 minute abs. Step into my office. 'cause you're fired. |
| All your base are belong to us. |
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 12:11 AM |
| Jake thanks for the input.....I am not training for a HM yet. I was just thinking when I was out running today. Right now I am doing Hal Higdon 15K training so that I can run the Gate River Run. |
2008 Goals...
-Start and Finish Gate River Run Completed 08MAR08
sub 8:00 completed 05APR 7:50 minute mile
Start and Finish 3 1/2 marathons in three months 04OCT08, 27NOV08, 21DEC08
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 12:38 AM |
I still think the concept is stunningly elegant! Consistent 400s in 2 minutes should predict a 2 hour half marathon. Of course building up an endurance base by getting long runs in once a week to 10 miles or longer would be icing on the cake........
1:45 minute 400s = 1 hour and 45 min half marathon. Its so beautiful I could cry. |
| What is to give light must endure burning.
~ Viktor Frankl |
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 1:16 AM |
I still like 800s and 1000s for marathon training, but it's polishing stuff. It's great for VO2max. I keep recovery short, 90sec for 800s and 120sec for 1000s. This keeps it more aerobic.
The best marathon predictor I've found is mile repeats (with a 200m HR - equalizing lead-off) at 163-165 BPM...this works because I know that this is about the HR I can sustain for a marathon. With long 400m jog recoveries, I do 4Xmile the week before a marathon, during taper, and darned if the pace I run for these miles isn't usually spot-on to my marathon. |
"Talent" is a cop-out for not wanting to try harder.
marathon - 2:28
HM - 1:09:53
10K - 30:57
5K - 15:18 (2nd half of above 10K) |
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 1:22 AM |
> Run to the fridge and back for 5k training. But give it 101% effort.
That's excellent, and it scales beautifully for 10K, because I can do doubles for 10K training, and I can conveniently practice hydration by drinking at the refrigerator end (because 10K is a long thirsty course).
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 1:41 AM |
| Quote from NavyJeremy on 1/9/2008 at 10:59 PM: Ok so I was thinking after reading the articl by Amby Burfoot about the Yasso 800's.
If the 800's work for training for a full marathon would 400's work the same way for a half. I would think so but since I have not done any 800's it would work IMHO.
Let me know your thoughts on this.
Jeremy
Hey Jeremy
After looking at your log, I'm going to echo the comments of some others here: get in more miles. You should build a good base before you start doing speedwork. Regardless of what distance you want to race, you need to build up those miles!  |
| 2009: BQ? |
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 3:44 AM
modified: 1/10/2008 at 3:45 AM |
I've always believed the Yasso relationship is backwards. The conventional wisdom is, for example, that if you can run 800m repeats in 3m:45s, you can run a marathon in 3h:45m.
I think it's the other way around -- if you're ready to run a marathon in 3:45, you can run 800m repeats in 3:45. So in other words, Yasso 800's have zero predictive value for the marathon. They're not a bad workout, but you'd be much better served doing tempo runs and long runs with 5~6 mile stretches at race pace.
As for 6-minute abs, who works out in 6 minutes? You won't even get your heart going, not even a mouse on a wheel. 7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 doors. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. |
20th Century: 800m: 2:04 |1600m: 4:37 |3200m: 10:06 |5k: 16:23 |10k: 35:38 |15k: 54:20
25k: 1:35:59
21st Century: 5k: 19:42 |10k: 43:00
What are you doing?
"Do not allow children to mix drinks. It is unseemly, and they use too much vermouth."
Steve Allen |
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 5:23 AM |
| Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 1/10/2008 at 3:44 AM: As for 6-minute abs, who works out in 6 minutes?
If you've only got 6 minutes, then a 1 minute warmup, a 4:01 mile, and finishing with a 59 second cool down is a much better workout than the 6 minute abs program. |
Your monkey gives me the creeps. - andahuff
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 10:58 AM |
| Quote from jEfFgObLuE on 1/10/2008 at 3:44 AM: I've always believed the Yasso relationship is backwards. The conventional wisdom is, for example, that if you can run 800m repeats in 3m:45s, you can run a marathon in 3h:45m.
I think it's the other way around -- if you're ready to run a marathon in 3:45, you can run 800m repeats in 3:45. So in other words, Yasso 800's have zero predictive value for the marathon. They're not a bad workout, but you'd be much better served doing tempo runs and long runs with 5~6 mile stretches at race pace.
The Yasso principle is primarily an evaluation tool as opposed to a workout. I do use 800m repeats regularly in my training but I use an equal distance recovery as opposed to equal time. As for the value of the Yasso session as a predictor, I think of it as a "negative predictor". Just because you can run the 10 x 800 in the target time, doesn't necessarily insure success in your marathon. If you CAN'T do it however, your goal is most likely not achievable.
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Sometimes it doesn't matter where the train is going, just that you get on.
Masters Group |
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posted: 1/10/2008 at 1:41 PM |
Ok just to clear this up....I am by no means ready to run a HM. I know that I need to get a good base before I start training for the half and full. I am by no means wanting to do speed work right now, I just liked the thought of the idea of the 400's.
Thanks for all the input.
Jeremy |
2008 Goals...
-Start and Finish Gate River Run Completed 08MAR08
sub 8:00 completed 05APR 7:50 minute mile
Start and Finish 3 1/2 marathons in three months 04OCT08, 27NOV08, 21DEC08
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