The secret to running fast (Read 2992 times)

    I keep hearing disdain about only running 30 miles per week.   I have a couple years experience now, and I have only gotten like 3 30 mile weeks in.   Now granted I am over weight, I am sure that is a factor.    I feel as though if I tried to run 30 miles every week my legs would just fall off.   I have a better plan now I think to increase my mileage so I will see how it goes.

     

    Wouldn't genetics play a huge roll in the amount of work volume a certain person could sustain?


    Feeling the growl again

      I keep hearing disdain about only running 30 miles per week.   I have a couple years experience now, and I have only gotten like 3 30 mile weeks in.   Now granted I am over weight, I am sure that is a factor.    I feel as though if I tried to run 30 miles every week my legs would just fall off.   I have a better plan now I think to increase my mileage so I will see how it goes.

       

      Wouldn't genetics play a huge roll in the amount of work volume a certain person could sustain?

       

      It's not disdain, just acknowledging that such low volume is not likely to give you insight into your absolute potential.  Not everyone's goal is to fulfill their potential, that's ok as long as the one choosing not to is acknowledging it as a choice and not destiny by genetics.

      Genetics insofar is they lead to your build and joint construction surely can play a role in the volume you can tolerate, but 30 mpw is pretty low for an absolute max.  Weight is under personal control, for example, you may find that when the weight comes off you can tolerate a lot more.

      You're only a couple years in, you said.  A few years from now if you are consistent and work at it you may find yourself at double that volume.  Two years isn't long in this game.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        I keep hearing disdain about only running 30 miles per week.   I have a couple years experience now, and I have only gotten like 3 30 mile weeks in.   Now granted I am over weight, I am sure that is a factor.    I feel as though if I tried to run 30 miles every week my legs would just fall off.   I have a better plan now I think to increase my mileage so I will see how it goes.

         

        Wouldn't genetics play a huge roll in the amount of work volume a certain person could sustain?

         

        First, +1 to spaniel's reply.

         

        Second - "couple years experience" is still at the very beginnings of your running career. I've been doing "structured" running (vs just jogging after work sporadically to relax) for about 9 yrs now and still consider myself a beginner, although I've only been able to run in summers since I retired 5 yr ago. I'm still building, although the volume increase in a year has tapered off substantially in the last few years.

         

        Sometimes it's a matter of priorities and what one's goals are in running, rather than physical limitations. A younger faster person running on flat, firm terrain could knock out 60mi in the same time it takes me (62F) to run 30mi on hilly trails (probably 4000ft of vertical). Under certain circumstances (like most of the time), I prefer Lydiard's approach (and many trail and ultra runners' approach) of using time rather than miles. (I usually use something close to a 2-wk microcycle with 4 key days and probably range from 6-12 hrs/wk in summer and 5-6 hr/wk in winter on snow, depending a lot on snow conditions.)

         

        You need time to adapt to the various volumes - esp. your muscles, tendons, ligaments, etc. Just arriving at 30mpw will feel much more challenging than having trained at 30mpw (or average there) for a couple years. As you adapt to each level, you can build higher. But you can't build a totem pole and expect it to stand alone. Ya gotta build something more like a pyramid with a good base.

         

        I know a couple years ago I swore I could never consistently run 3 days in a row consistently (normally 2 on / 1 "off"), because I was trying to force my body into something it didn't like. The following year, I found if I took one of those "off" days and just ran (literally) 30 min of errands in town (firm terrain, no snow like the trails, much shorter than I would ever consider for a run), I could run 5 days in a row. I still had my 2 days between quality days (like Hudson's SOS days), and my body was happy.

         

        It's still a major challenge for me to get in the 40mpw range, but I've usually got 5000+ ft of hills in there. And it's hard for me to hit that level until the snow melts. (I did a 10k yesterday, about 40% of trail was still snow covered.) Not only are speeds (loose use of term) faster, but my recovery times are faster when running on firm terrain.

         

        But I also recognize as I train more over the years and build on the prior years' base, I can achieve more (at least if I can keep ahead of the aging curve). The progress is slower, but I'll never say "I can't". I may say the time involved for an increment of improvement (or at least slowing the slowing with age) doesn't fit in with my priorities in life (like trail volunteering), but I'll never know what's possible until I try.

         

         So take your time and build a good solid base over the years. I'm guessing many people are still building base and reaching new levels of achievement after 10+ yrs.

         

        I liked spaniel's old sig line about talent being an excuse for not working (or something along those lines).

        "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog


        Feeling the growl again

           

           

          I liked spaniel's old sig line about talent being an excuse for not working (or something along those lines).

           

          "Talent" is just an excuse for not wanting to try harder.

          Funny how these discussions crop up just a few weeks after I changed it!

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           

          kevingoorijan


            Well, you've gotta run on a daily basis.  Train Train Train!  Also, you've gotta have the right equipment when running, like shoes and socks and all
            Gotta love my smartwool socks


            HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

              Well, you've gotta run on a daily basis.  Train Train Train!  Also, you've gotta have the right equipment when running, like shoes and socks and all

               

              Good thing there isn't any possible controversy in these assertions.

              It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


              A Saucy Wench

                I keep hearing disdain about only running 30 miles per week.   I have a couple years experience now, and I have only gotten like 3 30 mile weeks in.   Now granted I am over weight, I am sure that is a factor.    I feel as though if I tried to run 30 miles every week my legs would just fall off.   I have a better plan now I think to increase my mileage so I will see how it goes.

                 

                Wouldn't genetics play a huge roll in the amount of work volume a certain person could sustain?

                 Time will change that if you let it.  I seriously scoffed at a friend in 2006 who set this absolutely unbelievable goal of 1250 miles in ONE YEAR.  That's just not possible. Crazy even. 

                 

                Now I have running on the back burner for a few more weeks and am prioritizing other things and somehow still keep having 45-50 mpw on my log and I dont know how they got there because I seriously feel like I havent been running much. 

                I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

                 

                "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

                  I keep hearing disdain about only running 30 miles per week.   I have a couple years experience now, and I have only gotten like 3 30 mile weeks in.   Now granted I am over weight, I am sure that is a factor.    I feel as though if I tried to run 30 miles every week my legs would just fall off.   I have a better plan now I think to increase my mileage so I will see how it goes.

                   

                  Wouldn't genetics play a huge roll in the amount of work volume a certain person could sustain?

                   

                  Okay, seriously, THE last time on this thread (sure...).  Obviously some of the examples I have shared here are not good enough but funny thing is that there are tons more like that--really, with my kind of logic, makes me realize that there's no genetic jack-pot to become a champion.

                   

                  Toshihiko Seko of Japan was one of the best marathon runners in the world in the late 70s and early 80s (or pretty much throughout the 80s), having won Boston twice, London, Tokyo, Chicago...and Fukuoka 4 times.  In his career, he ran 15 marathons and won 9.  He was a middle distance star in high school (sure, some would come back and take THAT as genetic advantage...) but his coach, the late Kiyoshi Nakamura, felt that there's no way Japanese can compete against the rest of the world on track (cuz we're genetically inferior...).  So marathon would have to be THE event because there's so much more room to work on with training in the marathon (at least THAT is how WE look at it in Japan).  So when Seko went to Waseda University, Nakamura put him on a 5-year-plan to be the world best marathon runner.  However, in the early going, even Nakamura was concerned whether that's gonna happen at all...  Seko couldn't even "jog" for an hour.  He had a hell of a time running 10k in his freshman year.  It's a good think he didn't think like "Okay, this is my genetic limit--to run an hour a day..."  He would become well-known for his 5~6 hour runs.  Once he ran 50-miles and it took him about 7-hours to complete.

                   

                  Lydiard liked to talk about John Robinson as a great example of persistancy.  Robbie, Lydiard claimed, was the slowest runner he had ever coached when he knocked Arthur's house at the age of 15.  He said he had never won any race.  "But he loved to run..." Lydiard would tell you.  He kept on running, running, running...  And 20-years later, not a few years, he went on and won New Zealand marathon championships in just under 2:20 at the age of 35 and represented Commonwealth Games.  He went on and won the masters marathon championships in Germany when he turned 40 in just over 2:20. 

                   

                  My track record is nothing to brag about.  But I thought it was rather interesting--I called my mom in Japan for the weekend (Mother's Day, you know) and she told me that, when she was in school, she was told by the doctor and teachers not to participate PE classes because she had some heart problem.  Of course this was the days when they stopped you from doing anything anyways.  She's now 80 and walks about 3~4 miles almost everyday for grocery shopping (we don't have a big a$$ refregirator to store 2 weeks worth of food in Japan).  My dad...he was another story.  He passed away 2 years ago but he never got drafted, though he was in his 20s during the WWII, because he failed the physical big time.  He failed a 2km run!  I remember, when I started running in middle school, that he used to tell me that, if I keep on running like that, it'd kill me.  My 2:44 marathon (25 pounds ago) is nothing to brag about but, in theory, I shouldn't have even run one at all.  Oh, and, yeah, I had a heart problem when I was in elementary school and I remember I always had to go to the hospital for extra check-up.  It was about 3 years ago when we changed our life insurance, I had to get my EKG again and, at first, they failed me.  Lydiard ran his last marathon when he was 61.  His comment was; "I guess all this running is killing me...!"

                  WMRunner


                     

                    Why is it that people who run the same volume, but have very different finish times? 


                    Just a dude.

                      My high school coach said one of the best things I've ever heard....


                      I asked him probably early in my junior year if he thought I had enough natural talent to be really good...


                      He said something to the effect of  "The more you run, the more natural talent you seem to have."


                      We had a kid on the team who could seemingly not run for 6 months and then show up and be our #3 or #4 runner... He never beat me tho, cuz I just kept plugging away and working hard...


                      My attitude has always been that if someone else has more natural talent, I will just have to out work them.  It worked great in high school... I'll have to see how it works for masters... 


                      -Kelly


                      Getting back in shape... Just need it to be a skinnier shape... 


                      Just a dude.

                         

                        Why is it that people who run the same volume, but have very different finish times? 

                         

                        Volume is only part of the equation...

                        I'm running 50 mpw... but I have only run six months... Someone else doing 50 mpw who has been running for 3 years will have no problems out running me...

                        I am training for shorter races... 1 mile to 5k... Someone training for a half marathon will probably do far better at that distance than I would...

                        Form and efficiency can come into play... intensity and injuries... How each individual responds to training... 

                        Everyone is unique... 

                        -Kelly

                        Getting back in shape... Just need it to be a skinnier shape... 


                        Feeling the growl again

                           

                          Why is it that people who run the same volume, but have very different finish times? 

                           

                          -What they are doing with that mileage

                          -How long they have been running

                          -Total volume over a long period of time

                          -Consistency

                          -Strength differences

                          -Weight differences

                          -And yes, genetiics.

                          So someone runs faster at the same mileage you're doing.  That just means you need to train more if you want to beat them.  My freshman year of HS I was running 20:30 5K doing the same workouts as my standout classmate who was doing 17:30.  He did what training the coach told him to and did well because he had a lot of talent.  But he did not love the sport, he didn't go the extra mile.  I loved running and continued to work harder, especially out of season.  By senior year he was not much faster, I was training at least twice as much and running 17 flat and beating him consistently.

                          Neither one of us was anywhere near our potential though he was obviously much more talented, so while I had to work harder whether I beat him or not had more to do with who wanted it more than genetics.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

                            I think every high school team has a guy who lives on talent alone.  We had a guy who didn't run a step all summer, never ran one inch more than the coach told him to do.  Or less - he'd disappear into the woods and cut every long run short.  He would show up on the starting line eating candy bars.  He smoked (regular and pot).  But the guy was fast - he could run 52 in the 400m, split 2:02 in the 4x800, won the county mile championship 3 years running (high 4:30's), and was under 17 minutes in 5K many times.  And most of the time no matter how hard I tried I couldn't beat him....I had him one season of cross country when he was coming off mono and I could count on one hand how many times I beat him on the track.

                             

                            My friend 4 years younger than me reminded me a lot of this guy - 6 foot 4 and all legs - but worked.  He definitely worked.  He was on track to run sub 4:00 mile in college when he tore his hamstring (he had split 21.9 at 200 in the 4x400m leg before he tore it coming out of the turn).  Still he ran 4:09, was down around 1:50 in the 800m and ran sub 26 for 5 miles.  I could never dream of those times no matter how much I ran...even now the guy doesn't run at all but can hang with me even if I press 5 miles.

                             

                            Genetics ain't fair.

                              Genetics ain't fair.

                               

                              Nope, but neither is life. We all have to play with the cards we're dealt.  

                              I saw a news story over the weekend about a 5 year old boy from NJ that is already an very good baseball player. He can hit a 85 MPH fastball. And, when you see him catch and throw, the little boy looks better and more naturual than most ever do. That's talent...

                              However, how hard he works to develop this God-given talent will determine if he's just a very good, but underachieving HS player, or a future MLB star.  Remember, Michael Jordan worked his butt off to become a star.

                                Well, I guess the laws of physics cease to exist on top of your stove. Were these magic grits? Did you buy them from the same guy who sold Jack his beanstalk beans? - Vinny Gambini

                                "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus