The secret to running fast (Read 2991 times)

    on the question of genetics....    While I am sure probably not everybody could be a 2:15 marathoner even if they trained for it.   However do you think everybody could be a sub 3 hour runner if they properly applied themselves?

     

    What does this question have to do with genetics?

    gregw


       

      When it comes down to it, there's only ONE thing that's different between "fast" runners and "slow" runners--# of excuses you give.  "I don't have good gene" is one of the top of these excuses "slow" runners give.  Why?  Because it's the easiest excuse to give.  I don't know of ANY research or study that had pin-pointed what "genetics" you need to be a good runner.

        

      I think your point is that better training will improve *your* personal bests regardless of what the other guy is doing.  I don't think you're saying that we're all created equal when it comes to genetic running ability.  Are you?  By the way, you don't need to pinpoint exactly what genes affect endurance to demonstrate genetics plays a role.  For the hell of it, I googled "twin study running endurance" and found  http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/275/5/R1455.  They selectively bred rats and the rats with fast parents were faster than the ones with slow parents.  I don't think they measured # of excuses the rats gave though 

      xor



        Also, it's just running.


         

        Nice.

         

          I don't think your saying that we're all created equal when it comes to genetic running ability.  Are you?   

           

          Well, I might; so sue me! ;o) (it's a joke)

           

          For the hell of it, I googled "twin study running endurance" and found  http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/275/5/R1455.  They selectively bred rats and the rats with fast parents were faster than the ones with slow parents.  I don't think they measured # of excuses the rats gave though 

           

          It's always interesting to read things like that so I'd read it later; but, of course, you realize that we are not rats???  You put rats in one of those wheel or belt or whatever and they run and run and run till they drop dead.  Us human, on the other hand, have free-will and we can CHOOSE what to do.  Some people CHOOSE to sit around on their butt and do nothing while others CHOOSE to run twice a day, 7 days a week (if they want to).  Would you consider THAT talent?  Or are you STRICTLY looking into physical talent?  If physical talent determine where you'll be as a runner, we wouldn't need to have competition--just collect some muscle fibers from their legs or measuer VO2Max or whatever and pick "the winner" from first to 100.  Of course, competition NEVER come out that way, would they?  So what is talent?  No, rats won't come up excuses.  But rats won't choose to train by their free-will either.

           

          And, would I think anybody can break 3-hours for the marathon?  Well, definition of "anybody" is rather vague...  If a 51-year-old guy like myself is included in "anybody", then I guess my answer is no! ;o)  I think I can do 3:20 fairly easily, given training period.  Maybe come close to 3...  For a healthy adult male with no apparent physical issues (like one leg 3 inches shorter than the other...)...  I remember the late Ron Daws said something like 2:25.  I'd be more forgiving.  I'd say 2:45.

          JimR


              

             By the way, you don't need to pinpoint exactly what genes affect endurance to demonstrate genetics plays a role.  For the hell of it, I googled "twin study running endurance" and found  http://ajpregu.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/275/5/R1455.  They selectively bred rats and the rats with fast parents were faster than the ones with slow parents.

             

             

              My parents may have had the ability run 2:30 for all anybody knows but they weren't runners.  So what does that reveal about my genetics?

               

              Nice.

               And, further, it's only love. 

              "If you have the fire, run..." -John Climacus

              gregw


                 you realize that we are not rats???

                 

                Really?  I think they were going to do the study with humans but discovered that selective breeding of humans was discouraged.  It also takes a while.

                gregw


                    My parents may have had the ability run 2:30 for all anybody knows but they weren't runners.  So what does that reveal about my genetics?

                   

                  What does your parents not running have to do with your genetics?  I have no clue.  I posted something about rats running on treadmills.

                  JimR


                     

                    What does your parents not running have to do with your genetics?  I have no clue.  I posted something about rats running on treadmills.

                     

                    no use to me, then

                    MrH


                      If you want answers you should ask clearer questions.


                      The key to running fast is obviously good form. Look at any sprinter for clear proof.


                      Did you mean farther than 100m?


                      Well then the secret to running fast for a distance farther than few hundred meters is conditioning. Perfect form won't help if you have to walk most of the way.



                       



                      The process is the goal.

                      Men heap together the mistakes of their lives, and create a monster they call Destiny.


                      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                        Is speed more the product of running form, or conditioning?

                         

                        Actually it's more the product of available potential energy (e.g., height available to fall), and drag coefficient.

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

                        JimR


                           

                          Actually it's more the product of available potential energy (e.g., height available to fall), and drag coefficient.

                           

                           

                          I lean towards this answer

                          gregw


                             

                            Well, I might; so sue me! ;o) (it's a joke)

                             

                             

                            It's always interesting to read things like that so I'd read it later; but, of course, you realize that we are not rats???  You put rats in one of those wheel or belt or whatever and they run and run and run till they drop dead.  Us human, on the other hand, have free-will and we can CHOOSE what to do.  Some people CHOOSE to sit around on their butt and do nothing while others CHOOSE to run twice a day, 7 days a week (if they want to).  Would you consider THAT talent?  Or are you STRICTLY looking into physical talent?  If physical talent determine where you'll be as a runner, we wouldn't need to have competition--just collect some muscle fibers from their legs or measuer VO2Max or whatever and pick "the winner" from first to 100.  Of course, competition NEVER come out that way, would they?  So what is talent?  No, rats won't come up excuses.  But rats won't choose to train by their free-will either.

                             

                            And, would I think anybody can break 3-hours for the marathon?  Well, definition of "anybody" is rather vague...  If a 51-year-old guy like myself is included in "anybody", then I guess my answer is no! ;o)  I think I can do 3:20 fairly easily, given training period.  Maybe come close to 3...  For a healthy adult male with no apparent physical issues (like one leg 3 inches shorter than the other...)...  I remember the late Ron Daws said something like 2:25.  I'd be more forgiving.  I'd say 2:45.

                             

                            Nobby, I was only reacting to you saying categorically that excuses were the "ONE" thing separating fast from slow runners and implying that you either have to identify the endurance genes (you said "pin-pointed what 'genetics'") to show that genetics plays a role.  I just thought to myself, "haven't we used twin studies to show genetics plays a role in disease heritability for quite a long time?  I won't if someone has studies running endurance."  That's it.  By the way when you say "no apparent physical issues."  What about unapparent physical issues?  Age and leg length discrepancy are just obvious and uncontrollable differences that affect running ability.

                            I think we're all in violent agreement that better training is the only way to improve oneself and reading rat studies won't help you with that.

                            By the way, Jeff already gave the OP the answer.  Form and conditioning aren't defined.  Conditioning sounds like a bigger, vaguer bucket to stick stuff in, so I'm going to go with that one.

                              I used to be on a High School team with a guy who was a little younger than me, a little faster than me, and worked a lot harder than me.  I would run 2:09 for the 800 and he ran something like 2:05 at the time.  4 years later I drank beer and he was an all american.  20 years after that and here I sit at a desk and he coaches guys who run 26:59 for a 10k.  Go figure.

                              In an infinite universe, the one thing sentient life cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion

                              http://htwins.net/scale2/scale2.swf?bordercolor=white&fb_source=message

                               

                               

                               

                              xor


                                If you want answers you should ask clearer questions.


                                 

                                But that doesn't seem to be Chris_So_Cal's MO.

                                 

                                Chris, when you start threads like this, are you really looking for answers?  Just enjoying the discussion?  Farming food for thought?