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2 die running Philly Marathon (Read 1490 times)


De-slacking in progress

    started running @ age 48 [lost 70#+, quit a 30 year pack/day habit>> ran HM]  Ran a few years then quit. Gained 70#+ back and smoking like before. Time to get healthy again @ 52 years over with the C25K program and beyond again. RE-start date 1-13-14

    vegefrog


      Very sad and scary because they were so young. I am training for my first and this on top of the other deaths in marathons recently makes me a bit nervous. I am trying to keep in mind though, that this is very rare and the benefits of running outweigh the risks.

        The couch is much more dangerous:

         

        "Even after adjusting for differences in weight, smoking, occupational physical activity and risk factors like diabetes, high blood pressure and other longstanding illnesses, as well as marital status and social class, those who spent four hours or more of their leisure time in front of a screen each day were 50 percent more likely to have died. Those who spent two hours a day in front of a screen for entertainment were 2.2 times more likely to have had a cardiovascular event."

          Very sad and scary because they were so young. I am training for my first and this on top of the other deaths in marathons recently makes me a bit nervous. I am trying to keep in mind though, that this is very rare and the benefits of running outweigh the risks.

           

          I could be wrong, and there may be some smart medical people that'll correct me, but....

          That is one of the reasons why I train with my heart rate monitor.  I keep my heart rate in a range that I feel comfortable, and if I see odd things in my results (ie. HR different that what it's normally at), I'll adjust.

           

          Sometimes, I wonder whether pride or specific goals lead to finish line collapses and their inability or unwillingness to listen to messages that they're receiving (ie. high heart rate).  It's sad, and I understand competitive people, but it seems like some of those incidences "could" be avoided by making adjustments.


          (I say all of that knowing that is not the case in all instances.  I don't want to sound cold or unthoughtful, especially since this specific incident that I'm responding to happened yesterday).

           

          Sincerely,

          2014 Goals:

          #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

          #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

           


          A Dance with Monkeys

            There is no evidence that HR-based training prevents deaths in marathons.


            Races involve high efforts (if you are actually racing, that is).  In essence, a race is a stress test.  Typically, the stress builds over the course of a race and is maximal towards the end of a race (unless, as with my race yesterday, you fall apart and limp in).  If there is some anatomic abnormality in your cardiovascular system, a stress test can bring it out.  Unfortunately, discovering the weakness at the late stage of a race is often associated with a bad outcome.


            Arguably, HR-based training may keep you from discovering an anatomic abnormality since generally speaking you limit actual high-effort stress in training and so any early indicators never come out.

              Sometimes, I wonder whether pride or specific goals lead to finish line collapses and their inability or unwillingness to listen to messages that they're receiving (ie. high heart rate).  It's sad, and I understand competitive people, but it seems like some of those incidences "could" be avoided by making adjustments.

               

              I totally disagree with this take, Brian. Many many people run extremely hard in marathons with no ill effects. Running hard did not cause these deaths. Some heart abnormality--yes, perhaps exposed by the stress of running hard--caused the deaths.

                Here is a tribute to one of the runners who died, Chris Gleason. Sad stuff.

                 

                He was an experienced runner and triathlete--and a dad and husband.

                  (I shouldn't be getting into this debate... I shouldn't be getting into this debate... I shouldn't be getting into this debate....)

                   

                  I think that for many people, a marathon is not a "race", it's a "challenge".
                  I think that for many people, a marathon is a "race"


                  I think that some people mistake the "challenge" for a "race" and they exert themselves beyond their time tested abilities.

                  For others (ie. Jeff and many others here), the marathon is a "race", and he's prepared many years and has tested his limits with 1000's of logged miles yearly in preparation for a given race.


                  But, I don't know.

                  I'll sit an listen, and likely won't speak more on this subject, as I understand that it's sensitive to some, and this happened yesterday.

                  2014 Goals:

                  #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                  #2: 365 Hours training <NOPE, INJURED>

                   


                  A Dance with Monkeys

                    I totally disagree with this take, Brian. Many many people run extremely hard in marathons with no ill effects. Running hard did not cause these deaths. Some heart abnormality--yes, perhaps exposed by the stress of running hard--caused the deaths.

                     

                    It is a race.  It is near the finish line.  You are supposed to run hard.


                    A Dance with Monkeys

                      I think that some people mistake the "challenge" for a "race" and they exert themselves beyond their time tested abilities.

                       

                      For somebody running a sub 3:09 (such as the runners at Philly), it is a race.  This is not a matter of us being sensitive.  This is a matter of a person trying to do their best at a sporting event.

                       

                      How would the person test their abilities in training if they are only doing low-effort HR-based training?


                      HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

                        I think that some people mistake the "challenge" for a "race" and they exert themselves beyond their time tested abilities.

                         

                        I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to explain -- or so far, I'm not grasping the logic of it.

                         

                        It sounds like your criticizing people for going beyond their time tested abilities, but, contrariwise, saying that is a problem for the casual runners.

                         

                        Doesn't that criticism apply more to the racers -- aren't the racers the ones that are trying to beat their time tested abilities?

                        It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.


                        Feeling the growl again

                          This is a very sad tragedy for the families of those who perished.

                           

                          There is no evidence of which I am aware linking such events in running to HR.  There IS evidence..from several studies...that running marathons is linked to temporary right atrial enlargement and increased blood markers of heart damage.  These changes are inversely correlated with training (ie the better you train, the more you protect yourself from these changes).  There is no conclusive evidence that such changes are pathological...ie that they are dangerous or initial risk factors of cardiac events during a race.

                           

                          I still urge everyone to train appropriately for the race distance they intend to do.  However as Ryan Shay's untimely death showed us, it's not just 20mpw-marathoners that can die during a race. 

                           

                          But you're much more likely to die on the couch.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           

                            I'd say that the probablity the 40 year old triathlete trained with a HR monitor most of the time is very high and he knew his abilities very well. He apparently was no stranger to training and racing.

                             

                            There was a death at a local marathon this spring in central MN. That person was a well trained distance runner also and just got his BQ time before collapsing after the finish line.

                             

                            The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                             

                            2014 Goals:

                             

                            Stay healthy

                            Enjoy life

                             

                              The hostility of non-runners that always comes out in the comments on stories like this always really surprises me, as does the idea that running 26 miles is so terribly bad for you.  Really?  Do these people not know that until pretty recently, most people did jobs that involved backbreaking labor all day almost every day?  Lots of people still have jobs like that.  For heaven's sake, I feel incredibly blessed that running the occasional marathon is the hardest thing I do.  I wouldn't feel human if I didn't do ANYTHING that was physically hard.

                                 I wouldn't feel human if I didn't do ANYTHING that was physically hard.

                                 

                                I like this. Well said!

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