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Noob advice for restructuring runs... (Read 926 times)


Speediest Slug There Is!

    I think I need to change the way I've been approaching my running. I've been running consistently for about two months now, and recently graduated from the C25K program. My first race ever is a 5K on the 4th of July. I can now run 3.2 miles, and that's naturally very exciting and all, but I seem to have run into a problem. Basically, I keep running out of steam. The way the C25K is structured, it basically has you increasing your mileage most every day before pushing on. I haven't had any problems until this final set of weeks. It's not that I can't run the full 5K distance at all, it's that I can't sustain that kind of distance every day I run. This means I'm running into frustration -- Monday I planned for 3.1 miles, only made it 1.6miles. Today planned for 3.1 miles, only made it 2.6. It was a very enjoyable run, and I ran at what I felt was a slow pace for me to try to avoid burnout, but I was still running at a faster than usual pace and I still burned out at the end. I could have finished if I absolutely had to (say for a race or something), but it seemed like it would have been way too much overexertion for a simple training run. I have been getting sick periodically, was too ill to run yesterday, and have been concerned it may have to do with overexertion on runs. The pace today, however, was faster than usual even though it felt slow, so even though I'm not making the distance, there's no question that cardiovascular fitness is happening and I am improving. I felt good today after my run, and I think the extra half mile would have made the difference between ''that felt great'' and making myself sick again. So basically I can run 3.1 miles, but I can't do it every day, and I'm tired of feeling frustrated. I'm beginning to suspect that 5K every day I run is not realistic or healthy for my fitness level. So I am trying to figure out how to restructure my runs for real distance running. I want to keep running and run as many miles as I can--and though it is many many months and many many pounds down the road, I do want to run a Marathon eventually. But I have my whole lifetime to get there, and I don't want to burn myself out. So what would be a realistic training schedule for me, both in the next two weeks as I prepare for the 5K, and afterward when I am ready to move up a step? Should I be trying to run 5K every day I run? Am I expecting too much too soon, or do I just need to HTFU? If anybody who can make sense of my training log and my rambling confusion here and form a coherent response to my nonsense, it will be most appreciated.
    Fall seven times, stand up eight.
    Goals:
    *Complete a 5K (no walking)
    Tortoise and Hare 5K, 42:05, 13:35 pace PR
    *Weigh 160 lbs 5 to go!!!
    *15 mpw base
      First of all, I think you're doing great! Also, it sounds like you pretty much know what you need to do and are just waiting for somebody to confirm it.
      So basically I can run 3.1 miles, but I can't do it every day, and I'm tired of feeling frustrated. I'm beginning to suspect that 5K every day I run is not realistic or healthy for my fitness level.
      I suspect you're right. But that doesn't mean at all that it'll stay that way. It is completely respectable, and probably advisable, NOT to try to reach any particular distance goal every time you run. Mix it up! Run a mile and half some days, and 3 miles other days. No worries. If 3 miles 3 times in a week makes you get sick then that's your body telling you to back off a little bit and you should listen to it.
      So I am trying to figure out how to restructure my runs for real distance running. I want to keep running and run as many miles as I can--and though it is many many months and many many pounds down the road, I do want to run a Marathon eventually. But I have my whole lifetime to get there, and I don't want to burn myself out.
      Though I'm a little further along than you on my journey to a marathon, I feel exactly the same way. I'm in no rush to reach the distance, and would rather do it healthy and happy by taking my time. In my obviously biased opinion, I think this is the best approach to running a marathon.
      So what would be a realistic training schedule for me, both in the next two weeks as I prepare for the 5K, and afterward when I am ready to move up a step? Should I be trying to run 5K every day I run? Am I expecting too much too soon, or do I just need to HTFU? If anybody who can make sense of my training log and my rambling confusion here and form a coherent response to my nonsense, it will be most appreciated.
      I can't suggest anything specific other than to emphasize that it's probably a good idea to mix up the distances rather than always trying for 5k (or whatever). Listen to your body. I noticed that a few weeks ago you ran 4 times in one week rather than three, all a little shorter distances. How did that work? You might want to try running shorter twice per week and longer twice per week and see how that works out. As always, though, it's really all an experiment. What works for others might not work for you, but it seems like you're on the right track here. I'm sure others will have good suggestions too!

      sean


      A Saucy Wench

        My first thought is run slower. And I know you are thinking WHAT? I know..you feel as though you are already slow.
        but I was still running at a faster than usual pace and I still burned out at the end
        Pace takes a long time. At this point if running 3.1 is too much, then run it slower and if that is too much then do walk intervals, just as you did during C25K. Most of us who do longer runs dont do anywhere near our maximum distance every single workout. That would kill us Tongue. Once a week run the full distance you are capable of (right now that is 3.2) and try to increase that a little bit every week. Keep the pace as slow as it needs to be to finish the distance. Add ~ 5 minutes a week to the long run for awhile and you will be amazed at what that does for the rest of your runs. The other days either walk/run intervals so that your running distance is less but you still get a good workout - especially since weight loss is part of your goal. Maybe go out and walk a mile run a mile walk a mile. Over time you can increase the run part and decrease the walk part. If you decide to go out for say 3 miles and you burn out at 1.5 (hey there are bad days)..then try to finish the mileage walking. Time on feet helps a lot for a new runner. And you never know. You may walk for 1/2 a mile and get bored and start running again! MT get a little more specific. So looking at your log I would suggest something along the lines of M - Run 2 miles or Run/walk for ~40 min W - Go for 45-60 min alternating 5 min run/5 min walk cycles F- Run 2 miles or Run/walk for 40 min S - Run for 50 minutes and increase this run a few minutes each week If that is feeling too hard knock a few minutes off each one and dont increase until it feels reasonable. You should feel challenged but not exhausted

        I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

         

        "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7


        SMART Approach

          Yes, I agree with Ennay. Training runs should not make you exhausted or difficult to finish. Try to run slower and/or mix in 3-6 min running with 30-60 sec of walking especially on your longer days. You just need to be patient and allow your aerobic system to develop. Right now when you try to get through your 3 miles you are probably working anaerobically because you are forced to stop. This is not conducive to long term improvements. Try to slow down, mix in some walking and continue to gradually progress and let the body adapt to the pounding/stress of running so you don't get injured.

          Run Coach. Recovery Coach. Founder of SMART Approach Training, Coaching & Recovery

          Structured Marathon Adaptive Recovery Training

          Safe Muscle Activation Recovery Technique

          www.smartapproachtraining.com


          Speediest Slug There Is!

            Thank you, yes, basically I figured my instinct was right but wanted some confirmation from more experienced runners. I just have to keep reminding myself, I have all the time in the world to improve. One of my weaknesses is a lack of patience and it's not the first time I have run into problems trying to do too much too fast. I appreciate the recommendation Ennay, I think I am going to start Hal Higdon's Spring Training, I've noticed it starts out with lower mileage more frequently with a good long run on the weekend. I'm going to start alternating distances as you suggest, and we can walk the rest of the way (I don't love the idea of walking in the middle of a workout, but it makes a good warm-up or cool-down) Tchuck you're right, I was definitely anaerobic today and I knew it, which is why I decided to cut it short. Part of my reward for running my upcoming 5K is a heartrate/pace/distance monitor. That will make it easier to know when I am pushing it too hard. Let me know if you have any good recommendations. I was going to get the Nike PLUS but it doesn't appear to have a heartrate monitor.
            Fall seven times, stand up eight.
            Goals:
            *Complete a 5K (no walking)
            Tortoise and Hare 5K, 42:05, 13:35 pace PR
            *Weigh 160 lbs 5 to go!!!
            *15 mpw base
              Hey Slug, You have been given EXCELLENT advice. Please do your best to follow it. It will in turn, make you an Injury free, happy runner. Frustration with wanting MORE is always the demise of new runners, because your heart wants it so badly, but our bodies just can't take it in the beginning. For your present to yourself, Many of us use the Garmin Forerunner devices. If you are looking at getting a Heart Rate Monitor, the 305 would be the most cost effective model for you, although they are pretty pricey. They are wonderful for showing you your current pace, and your average pace for the entire run, and keeps track of your miles so you don't have to. Keep up the good work, You are doing Fabulous so far! Smile

              Life Goal- Stay Cancer Free, Live my Best Life

               " Choose Joy, Today and ALWAYS" 

              runnerclay


              Consistently Slow

                Sports Instruments Pro 9 Heart Rate Monitor performancebike.com $49.99.I up graded to the Garmin 305 6 weeks later. Smile

                Run until the trail runs out.

                 SCHEDULE 2016--

                 The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

                unsolicited chatter

                http://bkclay.blogspot.com/


                running buddies

                  Hi Slug - I don't have any advice, being new to this myself, but I just want to say how totally impressed I am with your determination. I hope you are really proud of yourself - you should be! Cool
                  "Be patient and tough. Someday this pain will be useful to you." Ovid 2009 Goals 1. Don't get injured 2. Run 3-4x/week for at least 30 minutes 3. participate in at least one run or tri (maybe 2) "And remember, Dead Freakin' Last is better than Did Not Finish which is way better than Did Not Start" (Allison)


                  Speediest Slug There Is!

                    Just a little update... I checked out Hal Higdon's Spring Training in more detail, and it's basically exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for, so we're starting that now. (Technically beginning Week 1 tomorrow.) Today was an ''easy'' 1.5 miler, and for once I would really call it fairly easy. Our pace was too fast to sustain for the long run, but knowing what we had to do I was able to sustain basically the same pace for the whole run. I loved it! I feel so much better about this now. Blush I can hear my body talking to me, it is saying, ''This is exactly what you need...'' And strength training 3x a week is exactly what I need too, I've been lazy about that but I have bad knees and they cry out for it. We're moving to New Brunswick, NJ, an hour from NYC this August, and after reading lots of inspirational stories (Rick and Dick Hoyt for one) I'm ready for the long haul. I'm setting a tentative goal to run my first, the New York City Marathon, next Fall. As I said before I have an entire lifetime, but I love the idea of my first marathon being the NYC, and we'll be living so close. It just sounds so exciting to share something like that with all of those people. I want to do it as a charity run too. Don't worry, I won't get carried away. I'm just putting that out there as something to motivate me. I had just such a good time running today I wanted to share it. I really believe I can accomplish the Spring Training and beyond if I put my mind to it and work smart (i.e. not overdo it.) The Garmin is very expensive for my current financial situation so I am going to get the Nike PLUS with no heart rate monitor as the 5K reward, and if I can sustain running through the winter, my reward is going to be getting the Garmin. I know the winter is going to be the biggest challenge, discipline-wise, because I hate the cold and it puts me in hibernation mode.
                    Fall seven times, stand up eight.
                    Goals:
                    *Complete a 5K (no walking)
                    Tortoise and Hare 5K, 42:05, 13:35 pace PR
                    *Weigh 160 lbs 5 to go!!!
                    *15 mpw base
                      It sounds like you've nailed the slowing down thing and that's one of the toughest things for a new runner. All of your runs should be at a very easy "conversational" pace. As your conditioning improves you'll be able to run faster and farther with the same amount of effort. You should also realize that it is not necessary nor is it appropriate for a new runner to run every day. You'll come to realize withe experience that rest or recovery days are every bit as important as running days. This is especially important for a new runner because new runners tend to do more damage to their muscles and connective tissues than seasoned runners. Those injured need time to heal which is what rest days or cross training days are for. Three or four running days a week is more than adequate to get you in good condition. Keep up the good work. Tom
                        Hey RacingSlug! I'm doing HHST too. I'm on week 4. Last week I 'cheated' and threw in an extra day. I only ran 2 miles that extra day, but it meant I did four consecutive days and for a relative newbie like myself, that wasn't wise. It made Saturday's run really rough. So until I finish the program I'm going to stick with the 4x per week schedule. I'm so slow that it's hard to imagine slowing down more, but I do find that when I slow down (to an amazingly slow pace of 13:30 or 14:00 or even slower sometimes) I enjoy my runs much more.
                        -Monica

                        Slow and steady wins the race means a lot of fast people pass you.
                          It sounds like you've nailed the slowing down thing and that's one of the toughest things for a new runner. All of your runs should be at a very easy "conversational" pace. As your conditioning improves you'll be able to run faster and farther with the same amount of effort. You should also realize that it is not necessary nor is it appropriate for a new runner to run every day. You'll come to realize withe experience that rest or recovery days are every bit as important as running days. This is especially important for a new runner because new runners tend to do more damage to their muscles and connective tissues than seasoned runners. Those injured need time to heal which is what rest days or cross training days are for. Three or four running days a week is more than adequate to get you in good condition. Keep up the good work. Tom
                          As a rookie just coming off c25k myself ,wanted to second this thought ,take the rest day inbetween runs ,it was all the differece in the world for me.


                          Prince of Fatness

                            I'd tell you to slow down, but I don't want to beat a dead horse. Wink Kidding aside, I'd say that if you can't finish a run then you were going too fast. There's nothing wrong with slowing down, or even taking walk breaks. You'll get there. I like Ennay's suggestion because it focuses on time and not mileage. It's the time that counts. Even if it's walking your endurance will come. I'm also going to suggest that you not do the marathon next fall (2009). I think it would be better if you build your mileage up and maybe run a half marathon in fall 2009. Then go for the marathon in 2010. I see that you are only 25, so you have time. I ran my first and only marathon last year at age 44. Good luck with your running ... and welcome to NJ.

                            Not at it at all. 


                            Speediest Slug There Is!

                              Thanks MrPHinNJ. I will consider not doing the marathon next year. We'll see how I progress this year. Sometimes I make a mistake and do too much too fast, but one thing I give myself credit for is realizing when I'm doing that and backing off. So I will watch myself over this next year and see if I think I am ready for a marathon. One step at a time.
                              Fall seven times, stand up eight.
                              Goals:
                              *Complete a 5K (no walking)
                              Tortoise and Hare 5K, 42:05, 13:35 pace PR
                              *Weigh 160 lbs 5 to go!!!
                              *15 mpw base
                                I'd echo what's been said about going for time. I did C25k for time, not concerning myself with pace. I was using a HR monitor and running 14:30 miles, so I was just breaking 2 miles. I then moved on the One Hour Runner, again based on time and running pace based on HR. Only several weeks after I completed OHR did I start to think of my runs in terms of miles, rather than time. That's what worked for me. You sound determined. You'll figure out what works for you. Good luck.
                                Brandon
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