Is sub 3 possible for me in 9 weeks? 16 weeks actually (Read 620 times)

     

    Here's what worked well for me, and others I know.  1) Bump up your mileage 2) Fast Finish Long Runs 3) Tempo/Tempo Intervals/Rhythm runs

     

    Thanks for sharing your experience. It does fit what I believe too. The only concern for me is so much MP in long runs, I am not sure my recovery would be fast enough to do another hard workout (tempo/tempo interval) in a couple days. Some day I want to try this approach but probably not this time.

     

    My boss paid for runcoach's training plan for all runners in the company. I received a customized plan that reaches 61 miles for September's marathon. The longest run is two 23 miles. There is no MP pace in any long run. In the 1st Phrase, Tuesday is speed workout, no tempo. In the 2nd phrase, add Friday Tempo/Threshold rotation. It emphasizes a lot on running form training to improve running economy: strides and drills in all speed/tempo/threshold days.

    5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)


    Feeling the growl again

       

      The longest run is two 23 miles. There is no MP pace in any long run.

      Frankly, you'd be better off finishing the final miles of every other long run faster...at least up to MP...even if this meant cutting the length down to 20 miles to help with your recovery.  You don't need 23 mile long runs, but learning to run hard when your body is tired after 2+ hours on your feet makes a world of difference.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       


      Latent Runner

         

        Thanks for sharing your experience. It does fit what I believe too. The only concern for me is so much MP in long runs, I am not sure my recovery would be fast enough to do another hard workout (tempo/tempo interval) in a couple days.

         

        You might be surprised at how quickly your body will adapt to long runs with fast finishes.  Give it a try, I predict you'll be glad you did.  Smile

        Fat old man PRs:

        • 1-mile (point to point, gravity assist): 5:50
        • 2-mile: 13:49
        • 5K (gravity assist last mile): 21:31
        • 5-Mile: 37:24
        • 10K (first 10K of my Half Marathon): 48:16
        • 10-Mile (first 10 miles of my Half Marathon): 1:17:40
        • Half Marathon: 1:42:13

          Considering you three's suggestion, I will add my MP in every other long run using JKurtz1's method.

          5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)

            What's nice about alternating the fast finish runs with two back to back STEADY runs - it gives you a chance to recover since they are brutal. This would also allow you to possibly bump you're workout to maybe Wednesday or Thursday. Just a suggestion.

             

            It will definitely help putting in MP work in somewhere in your schedule. Another possibility is having a true tempo day that starts @ maybe 6 miles at GMP and builds to a 13-14 miler. If you try this make sure to wrap WU and CD around it.

             

            Either way, update us on your progress. Smile

             

            MTA:  Steady Runs not back to back MP runs.

              Frankly, you'd be better off finishing the final miles of every other long run faster...at least up to MP...even if this meant cutting the length down to 20 miles to help with your recovery.  You don't need 23 mile long runs, but learning to run hard when your body is tired after 2+ hours on your feet makes a world of difference.

              And yes.

                If you try this make sure to wrap WU and CD around it.

                 

                Either way, update us on your progress. Smile

                 

                What do WU and CD stand for?

                 

                I will.

                5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)

                   

                  What do WU and CD stand for?

                   

                  I will.

                   

                  Warm Up/Cool Down

                    Here are my last two long runs. I didn't quite hit the MP. Any comment is much appreciated.

                     

                    5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)

                    Julia1971


                      I'm sure you'll get better input than mine but...  The thing I noticed most was the range in paces and what appears to be fading at the end of your runs.  That could be the terrain, though - I don't know how to read elevation.  How much mileage a week are you running?  Just wondering if you're overall volume might need a boost and it's showing up at the end of your runs.

                      You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                      Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                        My thought would be what is the temperature and humidity?  If it is considerably higher than what you would be expecting on race day that would more than make up for the slight fade at the end.

                         

                        Of course I don't know anything about running that fast so take me comment with a grain of salt.

                        Age: 46 Weight: 200 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                        Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 43:59; 5K 21:27


                        Interval Junkie --Nobby

                          It's hard to interpret your log without reading any notes on the experience.  Assuming these long runs mimic the course both in profile and weather: if these were my long runs I wouldn't be planning for a 2:59.59 goal.  I'd be planning for 3:10, and hoping I could pull that off.

                           

                          The following indicators are what I'm going by:

                          • The weekly mileage is very low.  I expect this will make miles after 20 very challenging
                          • In my sub3 training I regularly spit out MP miles at 6:45 pace at the end of 20mi runs and felt fine
                          • Your easy runs are pretty slow for just 3miles each.  That doesn't mean you should run them faster.  It means, that is your easy pace and your easy pace is much slower than I would think for a sub3 runner.  (note: you shouldn't make a goal of improving your easy-pace, it should be the result of other training)
                          • Your runs look a lot more like my 3:05 effort, except for the very low miles (I was doing 70mpw), but maybe you have a lot more residual fitness or youth than I have

                          Take it with a huge grain of salt.  If you pace for Sub3 understand you are taking the high-risk/high-reward approach.  It's still possible, just not likely.  And it certainly won't be easy.

                          2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon 

                          Current Status 11/10: Back to building up miles.  Junk feels mostly okay.  Kinda.

                            Thank you all. I just uploaded my logs from runkeeper.

                             

                            Julia1971

                            Yes, certainly I felt at the end of the run it was not easy. I had to keep my mental going. Last week I was on 48 miles. This week is scheduled for 58. I missed a few runs including a 20-mile long run due to right abductor hallucis pain.

                             

                            npaden

                            Both long runs were in light rain, 100% humidity, so it wasn't hot. I can't predict my race day's weather in September, historical data were around 70F.

                             

                            stadjak

                            The race profile will be flatter than the route for my long run. So I hope that will help a little.

                            I just looked at your Feb 21 mile run. It was a nice run.

                            7:30 is my comfortable pace. I could push a little bit at the end, but certainly it was easy. I didn't want to because tomorrow I have 13-mile with speed workout 4x1mi @ 6:20.

                             

                            I have 5 more weeks to go. The next two weeks will be my highest mileage, 58, 59.

                            5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)

                            Julia1971


                              Thank you all. I just uploaded my logs from runkeeper.

                               

                              Julia1971

                              Yes, certainly I felt at the end of the run it was not easy. I had to keep my mental going. Last week I was on 48 miles. This week is scheduled for 58. I missed a few runs including a 20-mile long run due to right abductor hallucis pain.

                               

                              I hate to discourage you but...  I would want to see higher mileage if I was attempting a marathon in 5 weeks.  You've got some good long runs in there but I would want more miles under my legs overall.  Your endurance probably isn't where it should be and I think that's why you're fading at the end.  If it were me, I would run the marathon by feel rather than having a goal pace in mind.  Good luck, though!

                              You're too strong not to keep on keepin' on. - The Pips
                              Yes, I am! - Gladys Knight

                                 

                                 

                                The following indicators are what I'm going by:

                                • Your easy runs are pretty slow for just 3miles each.  That doesn't mean you should run them faster.  It means, that is your easy pace and your easy pace is much slower than I would think for a sub3 runner.  (note: you shouldn't make a goal of improving your easy-pace, it should be the result of other training)

                                 

                                IMO, I don't think that your easy runs are too slow. There's just no faster work to make any accurate predictions.  I don't see anywhere in your log that your running at 6:52 pace to let me know how easy that feels for you.  

                                I run a lot of my easy mileage in the 7:30-8:20, but run intervals/tempo/progressions substantially faster than this pace.