Is sub 3 possible for me in 9 weeks? 16 weeks actually (Read 616 times)

Goorun


     

    Nah, I'm not much of a big city marathon guy anymore.  Boston is the only exception.  Best of luck with your race.

     

    Same here, but I've never ran NYC and I'll be 60 (yea, old) in October so it's a good time to do it.

    Slow and steady never wins anything.

    Goorun


      24 hours later I ran 7 miles. This was supposed to be yesterday's training. I probably shouldn't have run that fast.  I felt quite energized. Tomorrow is a rest day, so that is good.

       

       

      I read through this thread and I'm puzzled at the way you "train". You run how you feel, you have 4xmile at a certain pace and you are all over the place and end up skipping the last mile because you are too exhausted. You are cheating yourself of better results IMO. If you try for sub 3 I predict painful crash, unless you are more talented than your results are indicating.

      Sorry, just being honest, based on the information from this thread.

      Slow and steady never wins anything.

        I am still not good at speed judgement when doing a speed workout. Usually my tempo is more accurate, but this is my first tempo. I agree it  was a bit off. Also I am not training on track, so it is uneven road. The pace won't be consistent. It is more an even effort.

         

        Here is today's speed workout (9 miles with 8 x 400m). I am very pleased with the result.

         

        5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)


        I'm back!

          Here is today's speed workout (9 miles with 8 x 400m). I am very pleased with the result.

           

          I haven't studied the entire thread; when I get a chance I will chime in with an opinion. But just as a point of reference, when I am training to run sub-3, my intervals are more like 5:55 pace.

            If you're trying to predict marathon success from 8 x 400 with 90 second jog recovery good luck. You might as well use max push ups--it's just as relevant.

            Runners run.

              I've been reading this thread with interest over the last few months and hope you manage to crack 3 but like most others I think it's unlikely, but fingers crossed.

               

              I tried to break 3 back in 2008 as a relative newbie off about 35 miles a week for 14 weeks and unsurprisingly I blew apart in the last 10k to limp home in 3:11 after a 1:28 high first half.  I still chuckle to this day about it.

               

              How long is it until race day out of interest?  I thought I read September some time?

               

              Hard 400's at this point as well as pretty irrelevant as per mikey and potentially could be counter productive.  I'd rather see long steady intervals at 10 mile to half marathon pace at this point personally.  You can always tack a few 200's at a strong pace on at the end if you need to feel a bit of speed without damaging the point of the session.

               

              Good luck.

                 

                I haven't studied the entire thread; when I get a chance I will chime in with an opinion. But just as a point of reference, when I am training to run sub-3, my intervals are more like 5:55 pace.

                 

                My assignment is also 5:55 pace. Most my run are either about 20 seconds faster than the assignments. Occasionally I couldn't complete the assignments. What are the risks/problems when running too fast apart from risk of injury? Or simply it is not efficient?

                5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)

                  I've been reading this thread with interest over the last few months and hope you manage to crack 3 but like most others I think it's unlikely, but fingers crossed.

                   

                  I tried to break 3 back in 2008 as a relative newbie off about 35 miles a week for 14 weeks and unsurprisingly I blew apart in the last 10k to limp home in 3:11 after a 1:28 high first half.  I still chuckle to this day about it.

                   

                  How long is it until race day out of interest?  I thought I read September some time?

                   

                  Hard 400's at this point as well as pretty irrelevant as per mikey and potentially could be counter productive.  I'd rather see long steady intervals at 10 mile to half marathon pace at this point personally.  You can always tack a few 200's at a strong pace on at the end if you need to feel a bit of speed without damaging the point of the session.

                   

                  Good luck.

                   

                  September 14. I am still thinking about a sub-3. :-) If it fails, it fails. There is nothing to lose apart from miserably pain at the end which I am preparing to suffer from. I will decide if I am going to try 6:50 as my MP based on my confidence in the week before the race.

                  5k - 20:56 (09/12), 7k - 28:40 (11/12), 10k trial - 43:08  (03/13), 42:05 (05/13), FM - 3:09:28 (05/13), HM - 1:28:20 (05/14), Failed 10K trial - 6:10/mi for 4mi (08/14), FM - 3:03 (09/14)


                  Feeling the growl again

                     

                    My assignment is also 5:55 pace. Most my run are either about 20 seconds faster than the assignments. Occasionally I couldn't complete the assignments. What are the risks/problems when running too fast apart from risk of injury? Or simply it is not efficient?

                     

                    This makes no sense.  You blast out workouts way faster than the assignment, then claim sometimes you couldn't meet them?  So are they too aggressive or not?  It's one or the other.  Missing the longer workouts, but over-acheiveing the shorter intervals, is a clear sign that you are sacrificing long-distance ability for short-distance pride.  Lots of people can run good 400s but screw the pooch in the marathon.

                     

                    What is the risk/problem?  That you are going out and blasting shorter workouts far harder than you should be, racing the workouts, and screwing your long-term progress.  It's not just about injury....it's about over-doing it over the course of multiple workouts and ending up burned out/overtrained.

                     

                    Many years ago when I was trying to qualify for the Olympic Trials my coach assigned me Wednesday runs of 14 miles in between Tuesday intervals and Thursday mid-long tempo runs.  He wanted me to run them at 7:15-7:30 pace.  Since my easy pace was 6:40-7:00 pace, I just couldn't bring myself to run that slow and always ran them faster than he wanted them.  Well a month to 6 weeks out from my goal marathon, I ended up over-trained.  Wonder why?  You have to maintain the correct training load and faster isn't always better.

                     

                    Last night I did 4Xmile with <4min recovery, two at 5:12 and two at 5:08 (treadmill).  I considered doing a fifth, but being an old has-been I'm wise enough to recognize the difference between a good effort and an over-reaching effort.

                    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                     

                    Goorun


                      ^ Read that three times David. Great write up from spaniel.

                      As a general advice when you get to sub 3 marathon level, I recommend running ALL you LRs as progression runs. All of them. It is way more efficient way to train and it also gives you a good indication where you are in your training.

                      You have to be able to run the last third of your LR at MP and a bit faster (last couple miles) without any problems. Not being able to do it indicates that you are either undertrained for a marathon or MP is too fast for you and your goal is not realistic. It could also happen when you are overtraining, but that is usually least likely (you would have other signals before that).

                      When I train for a marathon, I run two long runs per week. On Tuesday 18-20 on tired legs after a hard Monday and on Saturday 20-25 rested. Point I'm making is that even on Tuesdays I have to be able to run at least the last third of my run at MP or faster without any problems, any slowing down. If I could not do it, I have to look at my training because there is something not right and it needs to be fixed right the way.

                      LRs should be an easy part of marathon training for better runners (it would be a whole another topic why LR is not easy for a majority of slower, recreational runners).

                      Slow and steady never wins anything.

                        Goo and Span, that sounds like interesting advice for someone trying to race a marathon near the upper edges of their natural ability but David is just trying to break 3 and hasen't even done his homework for that.  Building a proper base and following the basic Pfitz plan will probably give him a good shit.


                        Feeling the growl again

                          Goo and Span, that sounds like interesting advice for someone trying to race a marathon near the upper edges of their natural ability but David is just trying to break 3 and hasen't even done his homework for that.  Building a proper base and following the basic Pfitz plan will probably give him a good shit.

                           

                          Regardless, running the shorter workouts too fast is counter-productive, and not a sign that one can out-perform the marathon pace the plan is training for.  That is best indicated by what you can do in the long tempos and long run.  He's been struggling more with the longer workouts.

                          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                           


                          No more marathons

                            Damn, I wish you guys, and these forums, and these training plans were around in the early 80's when I was going for sub 3.  (OK - Goo, you were around).  Might have been able to make a more orchestrated try.

                               

                              Regardless, running the shorter workouts too fast is counter-productive, and not a sign that one can out-perform the marathon pace the plan is training for.  That is best indicated by what you can do in the long tempos and long run.  He's been struggling more with the longer workouts.

                               

                              I think we're in agreement that David is not trained to run sub 3, isn't training correctly to run sub 3, and isn't showing the proper indicators to run sub 3.

                               

                              The point I was making was that telling him how it's done in a 90-110 mpw training cycle isn't useful at all to him. With the proper base and workouts he's a good candidate for sub 3 with a smart training cycle of 60 mpw.

                               

                              David, I'm a little puzzled by your goal. You say you want to earn a "good spot at Boston" but do you even have a qualifier? If not, I think you stand an outside chance of a 3:09 on a good day with a smartly paced run. If you want your "good spot" keep training and improve your time later in the fall. If you aren't concerned about getting into Boston, keep training and you may stand a chance at sub 3 with two more months of smart running. If you are hell bent on sub 3 and getting into Boston I predict the most miserable positive split 3:20-30 marathon you will ever run in a couple weeks.

                               

                              Why don't you find a late October to early November marathon and let Spaniel and Goo coach you. It will be a fun project.

                                David, I'm a little puzzled by your goal. You say you want to earn a "good spot at Boston" but do you even have a qualifier? If not, I think you stand an outside chance of a 3:09 on a good day with a smartly paced run. If you want your "good spot" keep training and improve your time later in the fall. If you aren't concerned about getting into Boston, keep training and you may stand a chance at sub 3 with two more months of smart running. If you are hell bent on sub 3 and getting into Boston I predict the most miserable positive split 3:20-30 marathon you will ever run in a couple weeks.

                                 

                                Why don't you find a late October to early November marathon and let Spaniel and Goo coach you. It will be a fun project.

                                 

                                I've been following this thread and was actually thinking he should take all the great advice that people have taken the time and energy to give him and turn it into a sensible and well-rounded long term training plan for a strong spring marathon.

                                In the meantime, based on what has been said in this thread and a look at his training log, I think sub 3:10 to get into Boston will be challenging enough as it is.